Let's discuss the pros and cons of affirmative action programs.
Affirmative Action
Let's discuss the pros and cons of affirmative action programs.
It's unfair, in my opinion. It's reverse racism. If a caucasian person gets higher grades, he should be chosen first for a college, not a member of minority with a lower grade. If the member of minority gets the higher grade than the caucasian person, then that member of minority should be chosen first. It should just be equal.
When the program was first set up, it was done to counter years and years of obvious racial inequality throughout the school and college systems. Yet, perhaps it is time to revisit this program and theory and see if it has done its job. If that's the case, perhaps a new program can be implimented that is equal all around, where harsh, harsh penalties are placed upon schools that don't try to give each person a chance to succeed, but keep in keeping on with what they want to do.
I've never been a fan of university elitism or the notion that some schools have a status they need to maintain, hence they fill quotas of races to keep their school in balance because when all is said and done, education should be for all people, no matter race, creed or culture, and we should strive to give each person the chance to get an education where they deserve to go.
Take care all.
Last time this topic was brought up, I was enraged for pages and pages.
I'll just say that racism is wrong, always, and leave it at that.
It also reduces the value of education for "minority" races. If they don't have to work as hard, they won't, and the ones who still do won't be given the respect that they deserve. It actually hurts the minority peoples more than it helps them anymore.
affirmative action atually goes beyond race and college aid but i'll just folow the trend started here...
No we probably shouldn't give preference to brown people but we should give preference to poor people. Wealth is the biggest indicator of who goes to college or not. And considering how the scales are tipped in this country, if we did move towards lower income preference brown people would still get a bigger chunk of the aid pie than white people. Poor white folk in rural areas probably need education more than anybody else.
And while we're at it, we should get rid of legacy preference too. That has put more people through college than 'affirmative action.'
Smile even though its breaking
I believe discrimination based upon race (or sex, or creed, or nationality, etc.) is wrong, period. It doesn't matter what color somebody is, if they get something--college, job, whatever--because they're a certain color, picked over somebody of a different color that would have been better qualified, it's wrong.
I realize that in America, in the past, racism was a big part of society. I do, however, believe that this has reversed, and the groups that used to be discriminated against now have the upper hand. Because of things like Affirmative Action.
I think it's ok. Colleges look at lots of things when they decide who to admit. They look at your activities, the region of the country that you are from, and other factors. If all college admissions were nothing but a numerical game of comparing GPAs, then I could see a point. But since part of the equation of college admissions are nontangible things like activities and region of the country you are from, as well as a college essay, I don't see much problem in making race one factor among all of the other factors. Anyway, many people with lower ACTs than me got in to college on sports scholarships.
it hasn't racism is still teh same way it has been and its still a big way society is ran on.No one thnks aobut it now because racism isn't a law anymore but that doesnt means it disappeared.even though you say minorities have an upperhand we really don't.You guys still have the upper hands in american society.Originally Posted by Sasquatch
woohoo im taking my free ride fool hey look udsuna im gonna put G-Dawg on my name and i'll get into OU for sure
MY opinion on this really in a society that had racism as a law then this got set up mainly to tell employers to shove it an dhire these minorities or your company is gone.Well it was needed.In a way still needed.Without Afirmative Action then Minorities and women will not get the jobs they worked hard for heck twice as hard for if anything.
We do two folds the work than a white male does yet a white male will say we got it off easy.WEll if we got it off so easy then you guys sure as hell are getting a bigger break.
thats my opinion bias so what thats what an opinion is you can't say it "neutrally".How can one be neutral on what he or she stands for?
I leave it to that.
Actually, unfortunately, Affirmative action is so extreme to make that true. You spell like that on your applications, and they'll try to pick the next black guy to come along. Unless they don't have enough, then, disgustingly enough, they would be FORCED to take you.woohoo im taking my free ride fool hey look udsuna im gonna put G-Dawg on my name and i'll get into OU for sure
thats my opinion bias so what thats what an opinion is you can't say it "neutrally".How can one be neutral on what he or she stands for?
I leave it to that.
Oh, and my opinion is neutral, based entirely upon empirical evidence, no bias, what-so-ever. I earned my way through college. It'd have been nice to have the kinds of handouts you'll be getting (coulda went to a much better college), but I did it anyways.
Now, if you want someone with passion on this, you should talk to my friend Denise, SHE actually put "white" on her application (and she's the color of ground coffee, hehe) specifically so that she wouldn't be chosen based upon Affirmative Action. Of course, no employer knows (or would believe) that, so her education, though just as earned, is less valuable than a similarly qualified white person.
So, I'm neutral... she, however, is passionate about the subject. I told her the last time this subject came up. THIS time, I won't make the same mistake. She'd probably join the forum, just to tell you off, and get herself banned in her very first post. And maybe me in the process.
WEll thats in theory oh yeah imm gonna goto OU and get a free ride due to a scholarship program called OHLAP because my family income comes in as poor.Actually, unfortunately, Affirmative action is so extreme to make that true. You spell like that on your applications, and they'll try to pick the next black guy to come along. Unless they don't have enough, then, disgustingly enough, they would be FORCED to take you.woohoo im taking my free ride fool hey look udsuna im gonna put G-Dawg on my name and i'll get into OU for sure
thats my opinion bias so what thats what an opinion is you can't say it "neutrally".How can one be neutral on what he or she stands for?
I leave it to that.
Oh, and my opinion is neutral, based entirely upon empirical evidence, no bias, what-so-ever. I earned my way through college. It'd have been nice to have the kinds of handouts you'll be getting (coulda went to a much better college), but I did it anyways.
Now, if you want someone with passion on this, you should talk to my friend Denise, SHE actually put "white" on her application (and she's the color of ground coffee, hehe) specifically so that she wouldn't be chosen based upon Affirmative Action. Of course, no employer knows (or would believe) that, so her education, though just as earned, is less valuable than a similarly qualified white person.
So, I'm neutral... she, however, is passionate about the subject. I told her the last time this subject came up. THIS time, I won't make the same mistake. She'd probably join the forum, just to tell you off, and get herself banned in her very first post. And maybe me in the process.
There ar etons of ways to get free rides through college unless your middle class.
lets talk more about the working force.The thing about AA dicussions is the fact that everyone has mixed feelings but i think we all gain some new understanding of life over this.
"It also reduces the value of education for "minority" races. If they don't have to work as hard, they won't, and the ones who still do won't be given the respect that they deserve. It actually hurts the minority peoples more than it helps them anymore."
Very good point. It's gotten to the extent in America that all too many college diplomas for minorites are looked upon with doubt because the employer (or whoever) doesn't know if the person actually earned that scholarship, or if it was given (or helped) because they weren't white.
"There ar etons of ways to get free rides through college unless your middle class."
Unless you're white middle class. There are always ways to get help through college, and some are non-discriminating (clubs, grades, etc.), but many are based upon race or ethnicity.
Just because my parents are middle-class, should that make a difference in how much financial help I get to get me through college? My parents won't pay a dime for anything concerning me--didn't help with a vehicle, or a job, and they won't help with college. So why does it make a difference if my parents are living in a box of a mansion, if they ain't gonna give me any money anyway? Hell, even if they were to provide me with financial backing through college, why would that make a difference?
It's the problem of a society that concentrates too much on making everybody "equal". Newsflash, though, not everybody is equal. Yes, all men (and women) are created equal. It's what they decide to do with their lives that puts them above or below the rest of us. If I spend all my money on drugs and alcohol and end up living out on the streets, it doesn't matter what color I am, I'm a loser and a bum. And if I make a good career, or invent something that makes me a fortune, again, it doesn't matter what color I am. Everybody in America has the same opportunities, it's what we make of these opportunities that reflects upon the rest of our race.
What makes you think everybody in America has to work their hind end off, but white males just sit on their asses and collect better paychecks?
[q=Sasquatch]Very good point. It's gotten to the extent in America that all too many college diplomas for minorites are looked upon with doubt because the employer (or whoever) doesn't know if the person actually earned that scholarship, or if it was given (or helped) because they weren't white.[/q]
Now, i can agree that maybe its time to figure out a new system, however, i dont agree with that particular statement. Now a minority may get into college based on Color, but i be damned if they dont have to fight to stay in. If you graduated from somewhere like Harvard, you can be damn sure that if your arent a rich person, you earned that degree. Cause a college will kick you out if your grades arent up to standards. That i do know. They will kick you out no matter what your color is. So AA has nothing to do with how well you do once you accually get into college. The only thing that helps to get a diploma given to you is money. Like i was watching a that show on HBO again called "born Rich" and one of the kids said :
"I had pretty decent grades in High school, but im pretty sure that i would have gotten into Brown weather or not my grades had been good or bad."
so yeah, anyway, i will most certian agree that minorities have it easy getting in to college. But they work just as hard as anyone else to stay in it.
Sorry, I don't have any information that I can cite to television shows, so you've definitely got the upper hand here :rolleyes2: . Oh, sorry, reality television, right?
Money matters little in college, unless you plan to buy off your teachers, or unless the student's family is extremely rich and the school doesn't want to lose their sponsorship. Color, however, matters not only in enrollment, but in continuation of such. They may not turn a blind eye to a black person's grades/conduct, but they will allow a minority more chances and time than a white student.
"I had pretty decent grades in High school, but im pretty sure that i would have gotten into Brown weather or not my grades had been good or bad." That might go towards many more people than just the extraordinarily wealthy.
Well, I live in South Africa. (I am not racist in any way, many of my friends are of different races)
Affirmative action, has evolved to such an extent, that is has completely become racism all over again.
If I apply for employment, this is what will happen:
1) I apply (white) 100% Qualified
2) A black person 80% Qualified
3) Female(white) 90% Qualified
The results will be: First a black woman, then a black man, then a white woman, and finally a white male (Even if I have better qualifications). COMPLETELY PREJUDICE!
But, fortunately, I plan to immigrate from South Africa, as soon as I have finished High School (I will apply for University in the US, or UK)
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