The economy

[The Redneck]

Well I asked about the since you said that a 40 hour work week isn't going to pull you out of poverty. But while in college I didn't think you could get much more then 40 hours and still do all the work required..

True indeed--but if you're going to school for your entire life, you've got some problems already....

mm.. I wonder. our teacher gave a couple examples here... mainly that while some people percieve you as going up in one lifetime you actually remain in the same "class". Such as the so called working class which my soc. book says is 18000-35000(or somewhere around there..

I've never paid much mind to sociologists, but one of the best ways to figure it is how someone compares to other earners. If you're in the bottom 20%, you may not be dirt-poor but you're not doing so hot. Likewise if you're in the top 20%, then while you may not be filthy rich, you're doing pretty well. The poverty line, if I remember right, is around 18000 for a family of four--basically, it's the amount of money they figure you need each year to buy the basic necessities. However, it is indeed more expensive to live in some areas than in others--I could live pretty comfortably here in North Georgia on 30 grand a year, but in California I'd have to find something that paid more.

[Gnostic Yevon]

Why not just flat tax at like 20% to fund whatever projects need funding? I think that's fairer than a graduated tax. A sales tax would be a bad thing as the way to stimulate the economy is to generate more demand, and sales taxes are only paid when you spend money. And it would be harder to manipulate. You can't have the congress deciding that they don't like say entertainment products and then making the sales taxes on them 25% and the taxes on food being 4%. Theat would give the government too much control over what would be purchased.

Then I'd give small businesses the ability to apply for waivers on some of the regulations, especially environmental. Until the business is firmly established they can't really afford to be refitting their smokestacks every few years, but a larger business could. I think most people if they could only have one or the other, would rather have good paying jobs and a slightly degraded environment than pristine mountain streams and soup kitchens. I might give tax breaks to companies that have 60%+ of their manufacturing done in the USA (because nobody can spend money if they have no jobs).

just my 2 cents

[ShunNakamura]

True indeed--but if you're going to school for your entire life, you've got some problems already....

Well actually I hope to land a good job so that I can go to school or some form of learning academy for much of my life.. I love to learn... many times I'll spend the entire three weeks we get to write a 10page paper researching.. and then write the paper the hour before it is due.. doesn't do my grades much good, but I tend to learn alot.. and my teachers have noticed that that is what I tend to do...
I am getting better at it though starting to work on papers TWO days before it is due, rather then on the last hour. Research is fun :P



The 18000 dollar poverty line sounds about right, but at least according to what I have read and heard in school that is hard/impossible(for a family of four) to imake it on(and remain somewhat healthy)... no matter where one lives.

*shurg* economy needs help... government programs need fixing... we really do need a revamp.

Though I personally feel that free education, some form of aid to hard working poor that just can't seem to get out, and state funded health care is probably nice to have, and of course aid to those who can't work would be appreciative.. particually if they worked hard before they lost the ability to do so.

More or less I like many of the programs we have in... now if only they actually acheived what they are supposed to acheive.

[The Redneck]

Why not just flat tax at like 20% to fund whatever projects need funding? I think that's fairer than a graduated tax.

Actually, flat taxes have been proposed averaging about 17%. If we cut some of the programs that the government is involved in and shouldn't be (first on the block: National Endowment for the Arts), and put a rein on pork-barrel spending (which is crucial, and which both sides of the aisle are guilty of), it could concievably be made much lower.

A sales tax would be a bad thing as the way to stimulate the economy is to generate more demand, and sales taxes are only paid when you spend money. And it would be harder to manipulate. You can't have the congress deciding that they don't like say entertainment products and then making the sales taxes on them 25% and the taxes on food being 4%.

First, there is a national sales tax being proposed that would basically exempt things that are considered vital necessities--food, higiene products, etc.
Second, the government already uses taxes to try and control spending habits--a primary example being the "sin tax" on alcohol and tobacco. One of the things that infuriates me most is the government's habit of hiking up taxes on tobacco because it's bad for you and they don't want you to buy it, then spending money to subsidize tobacco farmers because people don't buy so much tobacco anymore.

I might give tax breaks to companies that have 60%+ of their manufacturing done in the USA (because nobody can spend money if they have no jobs).

Actually, there's two things that can be done to immediately bring business back to the US.

One of them is our double-taxation system. Basically, if I have a business overseas that sells in America, then I pay taxes for whatever country I'm located in on what I make over there, and I pay US taxes on the money I make here. If I have a business here, however, that sells overseas, then I pay US taxes on the money I make here--but I pay taxes for whatever country I'm selling in on what I make over there, then I pay US taxes on that same money. So unless the vast majority of your money's made in the US, it only makes sense to locate your business elsewhere.

The other is tort reform. More of our jobs are going to Mexico than anywhere else, but of the rest the majority are going to England, Germany, Italy, and other nations where the wages companies have to pay (both for minimum-wage and to stay competitive with companies based there) are considerably higher than in the US. But it's still a savings, because our legal system is so insane that a company can easily be sued for anything and everything. The woman who couldn't figure out that it probably isn't a bright idea to put McDonald's Hot Coffee between her legs with the top off--and wanted 2 billion for her stupidity--is a prime example, but our civil law system is chock full of such horror stories. (One of my favorites is the woman who tripped over a toddler in a furniture store and twisted her ankle. She sued and won $450,000 from them. It was her kid.) Ever seen the warning labels on products? "Cape does not allow wearer to fly" on a Superman costume; "not for use as a sexual device" on a curling iron (no, I'm not making that up); "warning; contains nuts" on a package of peanuts (some people are allergic to nuts); "do not tow behind automobile" on a sled, (my personal favorite) "do not attempt to stop blade with hands or genitals" on a swedish chainsaw? Do you think we really need to see a warning sign to know that we shouldn't stick our foot under the lawnmower while it's running? But those warning signs are there because some idiot did it, and that idiot hired a lawyer.

Well actually I hope to land a good job so that I can go to school or some form of learning academy for much of my life.. I love to learn... many times I'll spend the entire three weeks we get to write a 10page paper researching.. and then write the paper the hour before it is due.. doesn't do my grades much good, but I tend to learn alot.. and my teachers have noticed that that is what I tend to do...
I am getting better at it though starting to work on papers TWO days before it is due, rather then on the last hour. Research is fun :P

And that's cool--but once you land a good job, extra schooling isn't so difficult. If, on the other hand, you were one of those people who insisted on getting a degree in Marine Biology and then found out that all three positions for that in the world are already filled, then you brought that on yourself. It's your responsibility to gain the skills that will get you a good job--once you do that (and if I remember right, you said you were going for journalism--that was my major until I became disgusted with the field and switched to Education--pretty decent pay in Journalism), then you'll have the discretionary income to study whatever you feel like studying.

A big problem, as I see it, is that people cannot see or refuse to see the concept of discretionary income. Cable TV is discretionary. Pay-per-View is discretionary. Beer (or weed, if that's your thing) is discretionary. Once you pay for what you need, then the rest is for your extra stuff. I can't tell you how many people I've seen (and I've seen quite a few, while I was working at a grocery store after classes) who have their nails done professionally, a cart full of beer, and a brand-new $35,000+ car, but swear they need government assistance to buy food for their kids.

But yes, I've done the two-hour report before. I'm rather proud of the 15-page report I put together overnight, even if I did only get a B on it.