How Much Do You Love FFVIII?

[Kamiko]

I'D EAT MY OWN STOMACH FOR THIS GAME!!
(maybe)

How funny, that's exactly the way I feel!!

[XxSephirothxX]

Yuripa, you somehow managed to misconstrue a good bit of what I posted. For starters, it's irrelevant how much the stories of the other games suck, as I wasn't talking about them. I didn't like FFX's story at all, CC has virtually no story, and FFI was one of the games I referred to here:

Now, I haven't played the first few, and considering the lack of depth in general of NES games, you could probably say that VIII had a "better" story than, say, the original Final Fantasy. But while games such as Final Fantasy V had fairly simple plots, lacking the character development, detailed story, and general sophistication of later RPGs, they at least had a solid (though sometimes silly) and often charming story, characters with personality, and a quest that, while not being especially original, was at least entertaining.

The way you played up FFVIII could be done with any of the games. You hype it up as if it's waaay better than the rest, but, at the very, very best, it's a "good" RPG storyline. And I didn't pinpoint every bad thing about the game. I'm sure I could fine other ones if I went back and played it, but I don't have some vendetta against the game that would cause me to play it just to find a few more faults.

You have contradicted yourself. They all cant remember, because of the GF's. That's exactly the point! I am sure if all of us came from the same Orphanage, and then waiting outside was a brain damaging clinic, which gave us all amnesia, I am sure 15 years later, we wouldn't remember that. That's what the GF's do. It acts as an amnesia to everyone who uses it. (doesnt Irvine explain how it does it at that same scene?) I wouldn't say they forced it into the game, it went in nicely. forced it in would be:

No, I haven't. True, the GFs caused memory loss, but the entire scenario was far too coincidental to be a good plot element. It was downright ridiculous. This is what I said in the first place, you just misenterpreted it. My point was simply that it was an incredibly bad way to create relationships between the characters. They could have done it much more subtly or in a way that wasn't just downright stupid.

Again, you have contradicted yourself. You say that Squall sucks and all that, and how he is just like Cloud. Then you say how cool Cloud is. So if Cloud is the same as Squall, and Cloud is cool, but Squall sucks...what?
Squall is a lone wolf. He likes to be left alone, and gives the silent treatment to everyone. He doesn't like emotions at all, so he doesn't express any. That was, until he got to know Rinoa. It wasn't immediate, it took him up to the third disk to actually stop denying he loved her. So I can't see how you think it was forced. IT TOOK THEM NEARLY THREE DISKS TO DO IT! And you also said they didn't build up Squall's character. Squall is the most complete character you are ever going to see. I have already said his character. I believe it is very realistic and well-built. And his love for Rinoa, it developed him into a new him. he cared for Rinoa, and he loved her. He even risks his life for her. He lets out alll of his emotions that he has boxed up for so long, and just let out all his love on Rinoa that he didn't give on anyone else.

Dude. Read the post. I didn't mention a single thing about Cloud being cool. Despite the fact that Squall was a lone wolf, he was still pretty flat. And if Squall is the most complete character I'm ever going to see, why did it take you all of a few sentences to describe him? Yeah, thats really complex. And besides, I didn't say Squall sucks. I said I thought he was a bad lead character, he was too angsty, and his depression was annoying. Honestly, how much personality is in: "Well he was a lone wolf at first but gradually he fell in love with this girl and then he wasn't."

He wasn't meant to be a major villian. The major villian is Ultemecia. Seifer is only Squall's rival. And he becomes the sorceresses' knight. But, he is not meant to be the main villian. Only as a sub-villian. It would bee so much easier and so much more BORING without Seifer. "Oh, lets go attack the unguarded sorceress" Seifer was there as a back up, and to make the game much more interesting. Not as a main villian.

I didn't say he was. I said he was a pathetic fill-in for a genuine villian. He simply wasn't much of a badguy.

I do kind of agree with you there. She wasn't there until the last disk, but that couldn't be helped, since she was in the future. But she was there for the entire game, just in different bodies. For the first two disks, she was there as Edea. Then in the thrid disk, there was mainly talk about her, but she was there as Rinoa for part of it. She was a great villian, just trying to destroy the world, and then rule what was left of it. Just a power-hungry, powerful sorceress, which makes a great villian.

No. Kefka is a great villian. He's twisted, ruthless, and kills many, many people on his spree for world domination. Kefka has personality. He has presence. (read BoB's thread for a discussion of villian presence in FFVIII.)My point was, you don't really get a villain to have, or to honestly fight against, until virtually the end of the game, and that's bad storytelling, and it's a bit stupid. Just being power hungry and powerful doesn't make the villain great. Where's the character, man?

VIII totally blew it in the villain department. Any game that's charging you with saving the world should give you a good reason, and not just hint at it.

They didn't need a reason. Some people have the ability and the willpower to do so, and hey have a heart. If the world was coming to an end, and you were the only one who could save it, would you? If not, you don't have a heart...

Apparently you didn't understand what I meant. I was talking about the game, and therefore talking about people playing the game, not the characters themselves. Without a good villain to fight against, there's little to drive you to play the game unless there's a fantastic plot, which, as I've stated, I didn't think this game had.

Oh, and we have Selphie, too. I didn't think it was possible to create such an annoying character in a video game. She certainly has a personality--problem is, it's really damn annoying.

Selphie is a happy, joyful girl. It is just adding realism and intrest to the game. She was not annoying, she was happy and and loud. So if you find the happy and loud ones annoying, then you must find the quieter ones better. May I suggest, Squall? Oh, thats right, you don't like him either. So, usually, if you don't like something, you sould like the opposite of it. So, if you don't like Squall, you should like Selphie, and if you dislike Selphie, that means you like Squall. So either, you like both of them, or the likes, dislikes cancel eachother out, and you have no opinion on them. So if you have no opinion on them, stop badmouthing them! They are all great characters! All of them!

...

I really don't see what is wrong with a hard boss battle. It makes the game so much more enjoyable, unless it is so hard you can't beat it with 50 tries...But always remember that they are not impoosible. There is always a tactic to make the most hardest bosses simple. You just need to find it. And when you do finally beat a hard boss, you get this great feeling of pride in you, and you feel really happy, and then you want to do more of the game. If the bosses were easy, it would get boring, and you wouldn't be intrigued to play it any further. There was only 1 summon I thought was too long (take a guess which [It goes for 1 min 40, I timed ]) but it was good, because then you can max out boost, and it was worth the wait, as the damage went into 5 digits. I loved the draw system. Much better than having MP. And it fitted in perfectly with the wonderful junctioning system. With the junction system, you can tactically plan out your characters for bosses (maybe if you junctioned magic, the bosses would of beem easier ). Just say, if you came up to a boss which used pain on you in FFVIII, what would you do? you would junction as much Pain, Blind, Silence, and Bio to your Status Defence! Just say if you had that same situation in FFVII, too bad! It was a great addition I believe. Yes, the weapons are good, not better though. And they are quite unrealistic. "Oh, lets get this weapon, I will be able to this suddenly!" Junctioning is much better.

I wasn't really complaining about the boss battles being hard. I was just saying I didn't like the battle system, and hard boss battles were a result of the way I played the game, which was my fault. Junctioning was okay, but I simply didn't find it especially enjoyable.

I think it was a good combination, and, again, made the game less boring. "we have a whip in it! We must make all of the weapons revolve around that! lets have all these weapons *bring out a scroll of old, boring weapons* How boring is this gonna make our game?"
"Oh heck, lets just make it more interesting"
And thats exactly what they have done. They have made the game more intresting, by including a variety of elements of all time era's to make it one big, cool time! And i cannot see what you have against the Gunblade. It added fun into the game, by having to press R1, and without it, how boring would Renzokuken be? It added intrest. normal swords get so boring after a while, so they wanted to make a twist. Anyway, if you have such a thing against Gunblades, font press R1...and set Renzokuken to Auto. There we have it! A sword! And what is wrong with Cars? They are just away to avoid enemies if you want, and get around quickly. If you don't like them DONT USE THEM!!!

The first few sentences of that make no sense. And, really, it comes down to preference. And "not using it" isn't an option. The fact that cars and gunblades exist in the game was, in my opinion, bad, because they were trying to combine fantasy and futuristic periods. I don't like that. Needing to be able to press the R1 button to add "interest" isn't an excuse.

I guess I just feel as though many people who love Final Fantasy VIII overlook its rather strong and glaring flaws.

No, we don't overlook them, we ignore and accept them. They aren't that big, and they don't ruin the game. Like I said earlier, its not that the game is riddled with flaws, you just look at it in a contradictive perspective, finding every small thing and making a big fuss out of it.

o·ver·look
2. To ignore deliberately or indulgently; disregard.

It's not like I went into the game planning to find faults with it. All of the faults I've listed were enough to ruin the game for me. I thought they were pretty big, as is pretty obvious from the huge post I made listing reasons I don't like this game. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go eat some waffles.

[Mittopotahis]

No comment to the lot

[Skyblade]

Well, I'm not nearly patient or awake enough to read all of that little arguement right now. Instead, I skimmed it, and I will add a few thoughts of my own. Any criticism after that I will try to read fully.

First, on Yuripa's comments on the various FF's:
FFX: (SPOILER)The "overprotected summoner" wasn't really the key to Sin's demise. Auron was. Having been with Braska when he obtained the Final Aeon, he knew what was going on and what had to be done to stop it. He knew that no matter how many times the Final Aeon was summoned, Sin would keep coming back. Tidus helped by appealing to the few emotions that Jecht had left.

FFCC: (SPOILER)I didn't have much of a problem with the plot of this one, I just really hated the chalice idea. That damned moogle got tired too easily. Still, you shouldn't contradict yourself either.

VIII totally blew it in the villain department. Any game that's charging you with saving the world should give you a good reason, and not just hint at it.

They didn't need a reason. Some people have the ability and the willpower to do so, and hey have a heart. If the world was coming to an end, and you were the only one who could save it, would you? If not, you don't have a heart...

You said you don't need a reason to save the world. While its origins may be secret (and I think that gets cleared up at the game's end), there is little doubt that miasma is killing the world. So, you don't need a reason, just go get rid of it.

FFII: (SPOILER)You're not complaining about the plot, you're complaining about the gameplay style. Don't confuse the two. You didn't mention any of the plot, except for when the Dreadnought unleashes all hell on the cities.

Next up: Seifer. Seifer isn't the game's main villain. Seifer is the game's secondary villain. The equivalent of Reno (FFVII), Seymour (FFX), and Leblanc (FFX-2). In that role he does quite well. While how he fairs against Reno is questionable, he beats Seymour and Leblanc hands down, IMHO.

Azar, if you don't like the combining of fantasy and sci-fi, how did you enjoy FFVII? It had just as much sci-fi in it as VIII, unless you forgot the cars, cannons, rifles, robots, and motorcycles.

Finally: My note on personalities. Most personalties can be described in a few sentences. Oftentimes we do this, because it is a lot easier than writing a three page paper on each person. That doesn't mean that there isn't more to the person, we just sum things up. It's one of the features of the human mind. There is a lot more to Squall than simply "Well he was a lone wolf at first but gradually he fell in love with this girl and then he wasn't". If you like, PM me or start a new topic and we'll talk about it there.

(Oh, and Azar? Don't do that to yuripa again. Another definition of overlook is "fail to notice", and there are even more than just the ones you and I mentioned. Do you know which definition yuripa meant? No? Then don't try something like that. That leads to misunderstandings, which in turn leads to people getting their heads torn off [at least, metaphorically].)

[Mittopotahis]

Sorry, I don't have a PS2, and have only played parts of X, so I don't know much about it

FFCC: (SPOILER)I didn't have much of a problem with the plot of this one, I just really hated the chalice idea. That damned moogle got tired too easily. Still, you shouldn't contradict yourself either.

VIII totally blew it in the villain department. Any game that's charging you with saving the world should give you a good reason, and not just hint at it.

They didn't need a reason. Some people have the ability and the willpower to do so, and hey have a heart. If the world was coming to an end, and you were the only one who could save it, would you? If not, you don't have a heart...

You said you don't need a reason to save the world. While its origins may be secret (and I think that gets cleared up at the game's end), there is little doubt that miasma is killing the world. So, you don't need a reason, just go get rid of it.

Point realised and taken. Sorry!

FFII: (SPOILER)You're not complaining about the plot, you're complaining about the gameplay style. Don't confuse the two. You didn't mention any of the plot, except for when the Dreadnought unleashes all hell on the cities.

True...very true...I was scraping for ideas

Next up: Seifer. Seifer isn't the game's main villain. Seifer is the game's secondary villain.

That's what I said, wasn't it?

Finally: My note on personalities. Most personalties can be described in a few sentences. Oftentimes we do this, because it is a lot easier than writing a three page paper on each person. That doesn't mean that there isn't more to the person, we just sum things up. It's one of the features of the human mind. There is a lot more to Squall than simply "Well he was a lone wolf at first but gradually he fell in love with this girl and then he wasn't". If you like, PM me or start a new topic and we'll talk about it there.

I agree.

[Skyblade]

Next up: Seifer. Seifer isn't the game's main villain. Seifer is the game's secondary villain.

That's what I said, wasn't it?

Yup. Believe it or not, my post was not directed entirely at you.

[XxSephirothxX]

Right, well, I've said my bit, so you guys can go back to loving FFVIII in peace.

[Hikaro Takayama]

Well, when I first played FF VIII I didn't like it at all, however since I decided to give it another go (some 5 years after I first tried to play it), It's my second favorite game for the PC (right after Sid Meier's Civ III), and one of my favorite Final Fantasies of all time. At first, I though the gunblade was totally lame, until I saw the opening scene again, and realized exactly how it was supposed to work (and why it was so hard to master): it doesn't fire regular bullets, rather it fires explosive charges out through holes in the blade which, if said blade is sticking inside of one of the bad guys, would cause a world of hurt... quite a nasty close-quarters weapon, really.

As for the combination of sci-fi and fantasy, that's what attracted me to the FF series in the first place. I love mixing technology and magic in stories and games (which is why Rifts (r) is my favorite pen and paper RPG). In addition, the background info on this game was so in-depth that I had no trouble with adding the main factions and important people/events to a certain Final Fantasy total conversion I'm working on for Civ III (as a matter of fact I've just finished rendering a Laguna Loire leader head I made for said game using Poser).

As for the charachters: I liked most of the charachters, even Selphie (although she could be a bit annoying at times), although through the Missile base mission and reading Selphies page on the Balamb Garden server, I realized that she wasn't actually an airhead, but just really out-going and a bit hyper. Laguna was also one of my favorite charachters, and his Desperado limit break is, IMNSHO the coolest looking limit break in the entire series (the first time I saw him swinging on the rope and gunning down the bad guys, I could hear the Indiana Jones theme song running through my head ).

All in all, VIII was a good game.

[Tigerheart]

aww, man this is thr best! has the best graphics of it time. there are a few things i don't liek, but i still love it anyway. what i like most is the summons. awesome.

[the lynch clone]

i think it's hands down the best of the series. the story is amazing, especially the fact that the characters are all REAL people, not like mages and talking lions and [img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img]. i've played it through about 30 times now and i never get bored of it. the FMVs are really good for a playstation game and rival some PS2 games in graphics. FFX is really good, and i wish square-enix would re-vamp FF8 for the PS3 or something with awesome graphics, that would rule.

[fantasyjunkie]

My favorite FF game is 7, my second is 8, and it's a REALLY close second. the scene where Rinoa hugged Squall after he rescued her was just amazing. All his gruffness just melted away in that moment. Remember when he was saying to his friends that nothing alse mattered besides getting her back? I loved that part. And the fishermans Horizon song was just so cool. sorry, I'm getting carried away