the anti war hero thread

[ShunNakamura]

Actually, imo, the objective of a military operation is to *neutralize* the enemy. If you can do it without killing good, if not.. well then you can't.

Of course the good and bad has to be weighed.. you don't through hundreds of innocents/soldiers away to just take one bunker without killing.. keep it in perspective in other words.

As for the comment on the number of people I must say redneck hit it pretty well... taking out 20-50% of an attacking force to save one's commrades isn't the most usual deed.... that is something that would not have been easy to do.

[lordblazer]

Actually, imo, the objective of a military operation is to *neutralize* the enemy. If you can do it without killing good, if not.. well then you can't.

Of course the good and bad has to be weighed.. you don't through hundreds of innocents/soldiers away to just take one bunker without killing.. keep it in perspective in other words.

As for the comment on the number of people I must say redneck hit it pretty well... taking out 20-50% of an attacking force to save one's commrades isn't the most usual deed.... that is something that would not have been easy to do.

you dont know much of the military.

There are tons of operations from humanitarian aid to recon missions.To firefight were you take them out.To espionage missions.Also missions were if they can capture some enemy soldiers.

There are also air raids,dog fights...Naval combat is rare in this day and age since the last battleship was used in the GUlf War.Now its a muesem lol.

[nik0tine]

There are tons of operations from humanitarian aid to recon missions.To firefight were you take them out.To espionage missions.Also missions were if they can capture some enemy soldiers.

I think I get the general idea of this post, but it doesn't really make any sense at all, could you please re phrase that or something?

[lordblazer]

Nope Lordblazer doesn't re-phrase for anyone.My policy lol.

[ShunNakamura]

There are tons of operations from humanitarian aid to recon missions.To firefight were you take them out.To espionage missions.Also missions were if they can capture some enemy soldiers.

I understand they do those missions as well.. but in a very subjective terminology they are still *nuetralizing* the enemy. Also I was replying to the redneck saying that the goal of the military op was to kill or break things. And there are possibly(certianly) situations where that can be avoided.

There are also air raids,dog fights...Naval combat is rare in this day and age since the last battleship was used in the GUlf War.Now its a muesem lol.

hmm... disarming a plane without death would be a problem.. I imagine.

But overall I think you get my gist... I am just of the view that we should try to keep casulties on both sides low (particuallly considering whom we seem to be fighting these days).

[lordblazer]

WEll keepin casualties on both sieds low is what people stride for in war.To get it over with fast enough so that many young men wont die.But that isn''t how war works.War is a dirty business.Sometimes it must be done.Sometimes its for a corrupt cause.But htose soldiers in uniform understand that.They understood that when they signed up.They understood that there business means that they might lose there lives.
That is true selflessness.And theres nothing wrong with wanting to have a military career.

[nik0tine]

Nobody said there was anything wrong with wanting to have a military career. I think it's safe to assume that if we aren't in the military ourselves, someone we love is.

[theundeadhero]

the army works in the same way here as it does america with the people who join. most tend to be very unqualified and those who are qualified normally serve as officers

I didn't see this earlier. If the only people who were qualified for their work were officers than nothing would get done. One officer can't do a whole platoons worth of work. I would love to see my LT operate a bulldozer to get something done. Guess what, he can't do it because he doesn't know how. Officers make the plans. It's the soldiers who do the work. If were so underqualified than how can we get anything done?

this sentance bugs me though.
Quote:

His courageous actions helped defeat the enemy attack, and resulted in as many as 50 enemy soldiers killed

So being a hero is measured by how many enemies you kill? I don't believe the amount of enemies one kills is criteria for heroism. If it IS, than whoever came up with that criteria is morally bankrupt.

That's just fancy talk said in an official tone by the officer authorizing the award. It's meant to make what he did sounds so much more drastic and amazing. It's not what they base heroism on.

so when i step foot on baghdad i'm suddenly trasnformed into a hero? at what point there has my merits good or bad changed?

It changes after being in situations where you've been shot at, had multiple trips outside the camp gates where you could have been blown up by an IED, or many other things. Pretty much after you've experienced what war is really like.

I remember when I was in Korea I was stationed up by the DMZ. Whenever I would take a trip down South to Souel or somewhere with my buddies we would kind of make fun of the soldiers down there. They have have an easy going, laid back, easy atmosphere going on and it was a major visible difference from what we experienced. We would salue officers with "second to none" (second infantry division) and they would give us a strange look and be like, "where you from?" Up North by the DMZ, sir". Their eyes would get kind of wide and get these look on their face like we were suddenly much more hardcore. It was funny.

[Cloud No.9]

i'll explain the officer thing here. i talk merwly from what i've been told by those annoying guys that come around the schools trying to get people to sign up. so it might be a touch biased. but we were told that with a designated degree (a degree without honours) you could apply for entrance as an officer . same with the police force too. but meh i tell what i'm told.

[theundeadhero]

They don't tell you that someone with a degree in playing music could be an Infantry officer or a degree in sociology could be a tanker. All that matters to the Army is how many college credit hours, not what classes you take.

[nik0tine]

However, it may be different for cloud, because if memory serves me, he lives in the United Kingdom.

[lordblazer]

i"if memory serves" dammit we know were he lives which is why i dont get why he is arguing and even debaing over osmething that he know is a horrible debate topic we said it million times and i jsut think this is some kind of ego booster for him now and im tired of it.

[nik0tine]

i"if memory serves" dammit we know were he lives which is why i dont get why he is arguing and even debaing over osmething that he know is a horrible debate topic we said it million times and i jsut think this is some kind of ego booster for him now and im tired of it.

If only this post was relevant to... well... anything at all...

[Big D]

Indeed. I haven't been following this thread, so I don't have a complete handle on what's going on...

To everyone:
But if you're debating an issue like this, please do so in a respectful and restrained manner, avoiding any personal comments or insinuations.

Thank you.

[nik0tine]

To everyone:
But if you're debating an issue like this, please do so in a respectful and restrained manner, avoiding any personal comments or insinuations.

If only that comment had been made a few pages ago.