the anti war hero thread

[ShunNakamura]

I do not think it is really all that acceptional. Many people will give up liberties, luxury, and/or life for what they believe in and sometimes in what they don't.

Whenever one marries they give up some liberties, marriage is a series of compromises.

Luxury is oftentimes also willing given up for many reasons.

Life is definately the rarest of this to be given up. But I am not sure that many people join the army thinking they will die. They don't think it can happen to them. that it will strike others. or that is how I have percieved many that I know went into the military thought.



Personally I am taking this more as an impersonal debate then anything. discussing exactly what a soldier does and what it qualifies as is not truely bashing, rahter it may help broaden the views of some, or to help refine our overall definitions.

P.S. I need to take a shower so I didn't bother listing everything people do that limit liberties, and/or luxury, etc.. I am certian if you think about it you can find them.

Oh yes one last thing, most people I know go to the military for money, and college stuff... thus they aren't giving it up for thier country, rather for the benefits THEY can gain. They openly admit it to me.. they would not go to the military if the benefits weren't there. only if American soil was attacked would they be willing to fight.(about 6-7 people that I know have joined the military since afghanistan.. and the reason they went was for the education money.. they were hard up on cash.. and they figured this would be a good way to get it. Defending the country may have helped but the benifits is what hooked them)

[Talus]

The thing is, we never asked to be called heroes. We believe in selfless service, support is a wonderful thing but it's not manditory. Being thanked for my service means alot to me and I appreciate it, but I didn't sign up for titles.

I think it's great that people can look up to soldiers as heroes and can respect the profession. Unfortunately not everyone feels that way, but we'll drive on.

[nik0tine]

You'd be surprised how many of us horrible conservatives have always supported the military....

You tend to do so every time there is a war. There is nothing wrong with supporting the troops. However, when it turns into "support the troops" bumper stickers, and refrigerator magnets, and stupid yellow ribbons it crosses the border from support, to absurdity. I must ask, how does having a bumper sticker that says "support the troops" do anything to support the troops? It does nothing. The troops that need support can't even see it. All it does is rally support on the homefront and thats what it was designed for. It's a way of saying "support the war" but you can't disagree without looking like a horrible bastard. Personally, I think it's somewhat disrespectful to soldiers to use them in that manner.

[DMKA]

Well I'm against war, and those who participate in it. Period. That's all I'll say though because if I say any more someone might decide to ban me again.

[Skogs]

I guess the whole thing depends on your definition of a hero. I see a hero a someone who goes out of his or her way to improve other peoples' lives.

My problem with that, is that the improvement on one person's life will, whenever a soldier is concerned, always come at the expense of another person's life.

[Cloud No.9]

this thread was not meant to be offensive for a start . to say that i don't worship the ground every soldier walks on is not offensive.

being a soldier is not what it was in the second world war. it's a career. it's not something which is done in the same way it was against fascism. the international brigades is spain are the closest you can get to heroes. men who gave up everything to fight in a war without support from the military or government backing in order to fight against something they did not believe in. that in my view is one of the greatest things ever done in that time period.

career soldiers decided to join the armed forces and get alot out of it. they were at my school enough times telling me about scholarships and sports and good pensions and all this other stuff. it was not advertised as "be a hero". it was advertised as a career with alot of perks.

not all soldiers are shot at and not all will show bravery under fire. not all will risk their life and limb for a comrade or civiliian. yes there are soldiers who are heros and deserve every respect for what they did. and most soliders should be respected for what they do in the same way i respect a man with any career.

this thread wasn't meant to be offensive but a discussion on soldiers as not all needing to be classed as heros and better than everyone else for their job.

[DocFrance]

Cloud, how much experience do you have being a soldier, if any at all? Or are you just throwing out wild assumptions based on your personal beliefs?

I don't care if you don't "worship the ground every soldier walks on." But saying that giving up life and liberty for others is nothing more than ordinary is an insult to me.

[Cloud No.9]

why do i need experience of being soldier to claim that he is human?

soldiers do not give up their life and liberty on some little selfless path they have. it is a career choice they made for alot of reasons in the same way doctors, lawyers and engineers make the same decision at the same time. all may do something amazing in their time but not all are superior beings based purely on their job.

[DarkLadyNyara]

You'd be surprised how many of us horrible conservatives have always supported the military....

You'd be suprised how many of us hippie liberal pacifists also support the military.

[Cloud No.9]

i support the military. this is not an anti-war or anti-militarty thread. it is an anti-everyoneinthemilitaryisahero thread.

[Casey]

You tend to do so every time there is a war. There is nothing wrong with supporting the troops. However, when it turns into "support the troops" bumper stickers, and refrigerator magnets, and stupid yellow ribbons it crosses the border from support, to absurdity. I must ask, how does having a bumper sticker that says "support the troops" do anything to support the troops? It does nothing. The troops that need support can't even see it. All it does is rally support on the homefront and thats what it was designed for. It's a way of saying "support the war" but you can't disagree without looking like a horrible bastard. Personally, I think it's somewhat disrespectful to soldiers to use them in that manner.

Well I like seeing the bumper stickers/magnets, and it comforts me to see people care about the military. Me coming from a military family, and am in the Army and all. See if you ever came to Bremerton, Wa practically everyone has one on their car almost, because this is a navy town, some families have family/relatives currently serving in Iraq.

It's self preference I guess, if you dont like them you dont like them, if you like them you like them.

Cloud, how much experience do you have being a soldier, if any at all? Or are you just throwing out wild assumptions based on your personal beliefs?

I don't care if you don't "worship the ground every soldier walks on." But saying that giving up life and liberty for others is nothing more than ordinary is an insult to me.

I pretty much agree there.

[CloudSquallandZidane]

Anyone who puts on that uniform, and is prepared to defend the country, is the only reason that u can say what ur saying. Without soldiers some country with soldiers, would walk in and enslave us. That is why every soldier should be honored for their commitment and sacrifice for people they dont even know.

[nik0tine]

Anyone who puts on that uniform, and is prepared to defend the country, is the only reason that u can say what ur saying. Without soldiers some country with soldiers, would walk in and enslave us. That is why every soldier should be honored for their commitment and sacrifice for people they dont even know.

Oh please... That argument is baseless. Yes it is true that without soldiers we would be conquered, but when was the last time they actually "fought for our freedom"? They haven't done it often, and they haven't done it for a loooong time.

[Shadow Nexus]

Without soldiers some country with soldiers, would walk in and enslave us. That is why every soldier should be honored for their commitment and sacrifice for people they dont even know.

And who thanks the soldiers of the opposite country enslaving the country without soldiers?

My question is, are soldiers defending the interests of the people or the interests of the goverment? As far as I know, the first thing they defend is the interests of the goverment. If the interests of the goverment are the same as the interests of the people- and they should be, in a correct goverment- it depends on the occasion. Some people say this war represents the interests of both the American and Iraqui people. Some say it represents the interests of multinationals. Some say both. In the end, it's a matter of your vision of the situation, but I wouldn't jump to say soldiers always defend the people or that soldiers defend private interests.

Because tell me, in the Spanish Civil War, who defended the people? The Nationals or the Republicans? In the Cuban revolution? The pro Batista or the anti-Batista? In Vietnam, the South or the North? In the Napoleonic wars, the French or the local armies? In the liberation of Greece, the rebels or the Ottoman soldiers? In the current iraqui war, the alliance troops or the resistance troops?

In the end it's all a matter of your views on the whole thing. Sometimes it's one, sometimes the other, sometimes none.

[Hawkeye]

I better put in my input before this thread goes bonkers.

Anyways, Im not saying Im going to support people like that one female soldier who did those photo shoots of the Iraqi prisoners back in Jan 03 I believe. And just because someone puts on a uniform doesnt mean that they arnt going to sacrifice my selfish ass either. I want to know what the bastards are thinking who put people up in the frontlines. We are all human, and ignorance is bliss. Thats all im saying