the anti war hero thread

[Excelsior]

Sorry, but saying "that's just how human nature is" is another way of saying "I'd rather not think about it and come up with a real answer because the fact is it'd make me a hypocrite". I find it quite offensive when people say stuff like that, because by saying something like that is human nature, people are saying I'm the same way (being the fact that I'm a human), and I'm not (proving that it isn't human nature).

ok, i think i dont get what you mean. let me give you a hypothetical situation: a guy busts in your house, and your mom is in there. he has a gun. he gives you a gun, and then sais "if you dont kill me right now, im gonna blow your moms brains out." so, what do you do? are you saying that you were wrong to kill him even though you were protecting your loved ones because he has a family and they would be sad? i dont get it. im not trying to be sarcastic or anything like that, i just really dont get what you mean.

[War Angel]

When it comes to rights, the only person we should be worried about is the president.

Once more, the American way of tossing responsibility. I see this too much, and it bothers me. Who is this 'president'? Is he a tyrant? Was he not elected by the people, and does he not do what is considered good by the majority of the people?

If you're so democratic, stop blaming everything on the goverment you helped electing. The goverment is you (or at least, it represents the majority of the population), and should do what is good in your eyes. If it does not, you can rightfully kick its arse out of the Congress and White House.

YOU are the one affecting your way of life, your past current and future situation and conditions, and it's up to you to determine who will be in power. If it weren't for soldiers, by the way, the only thing you'll be able to choose is the manner of your execution (and sometimes, even not that).

The soldiers serve you first, and the goverment second. A soldier will die for his loved ones and comrades, not the president. The president job changes men every few years - the people stay. Your mother will still be your mother 40 years from now, your friends will stay for a long time, and most chances are Joe that runs the local grocery store will stay in seat longer than 5 or so presidents. A soldier serves those - not the president, goverment, or any form of authority. He follows commands given to him by a higher authority, which works for your mother, friends, and Joe from the grocery store.

[Cloud No.9]

again one of my threads goes of topic when i don't post in it for a few days. pfft.

the summary of what this entire thread was intended to say is.

to be a hero you have to do something herioc. you choice of career is not heroism but what you do inside that career can be counted as heroism.

no man is a hero by default doubtless of his career same as no man is evil until he does something evil no matter what job he is in. your job does not place you on a higher plain than the rest of us earthly beings.

that is all.

[War Angel]

your job does not place you on a higher plain than the rest of us earthly beings.

And this is where we disagree. I think a soldier that joins a combat unit, and serves in it for little or no pay at all, knowing full well he might be killed and does it anyway for his people\country\loved ones, is a hero, for that choice alone.

[Cloud No.9]

now you see this is what irks me a little. the whole soliders live on bread and water alone thing.

from what i know in this country living in army quarters provides you with. food, water, gas, electrcitiy, health care, deantal care, optical care, prescriptions, and on top of that a salary. and on top of that the best pension scheme you can get in this country.

and are we truly saying lindy england is a hero? the ss and wermacht (not necessarily the holocaust)? is the chinese army full of heroes? the menw who shoot ayt you on a daily basis, heroes or not? if signing up to a job that will get you killed means that all your enemies are heroes too. war angel this should ring particularly true for you. suicide bombers are 99% lilely to die. that's greater odds than any solider are they heroes for this? was 9-11 an act of heroism? and for that was certainly no pension scheme. what about acts commited by soliders? halabja? guernica? dresden? dunkirk? is all this heroism? can all soldiers really be counted as heros no matter what they do? does just the fact that you may killed make you a hero?

[nik0tine]

Cloud 9 makes a good point, but he goes a little far with the suicide bombings and terrorism stuff.

However, I am going to reiterate his point. Were the Iraqi soldiers heros? What about the soldiers who fought for the taliban? Were they heros? And then, the soldiers of nazi germany, soviet russia, and now China? Are they heros? I assume you will think twice before labeling THEM as heros.

[Cloud No.9]

my point regarding suidice bombers was in return to the idea that to be willing to die makes you a hero.

[lordblazer]

now you see this is what irks me a little. the whole soliders live on bread and water alone thing.

from what i know in this country living in army quarters provides you with. food, water, gas, electrcitiy, health care, deantal care, optical care, prescriptions, and on top of that a salary. and on top of that the best pension scheme you can get in this country.

and are we truly saying lindy england is a hero? the ss and wermacht (not necessarily the holocaust)? is the chinese army full of heroes? the menw who shoot ayt you on a daily basis, heroes or not? if signing up to a job that will get you killed means that all your enemies are heroes too. war angel this should ring particularly true for you. suicide bombers are 99% lilely to die. that's greater odds than any solider are they heroes for this? was 9-11 an act of heroism? and for that was certainly no pension scheme. what about acts commited by soliders? halabja? guernica? dresden? dunkirk? is all this heroism? can all soldiers really be counted as heros no matter what they do? does just the fact that you may killed make you a hero?

Cloud no.9 it isn't a a country club only in the USA airforce do thy get the best of everything since they are considered the brains of the military.

and suicide bombbers were raised and told and brainwashed into thinking if thye kill themselves they'll goto heaven.IF you study Yahweh based religions.Killing yourself is a sin.
This is how this thread is pointless.your asking the same questions and it just becomes

"I'm smarter than you so you better not argue what I say because I can make sound more intellegent than if you were to object towards what I was saying."

[ShunNakamura]

This is how this thread is pointless.your asking the same questions and it just becomes

"I'm smarter than you so you better not argue what I say because I can make sound more intellegent than if you were to object towards what I was saying."

Well lordblazer both sides can see it the way you just expressed it, just so you know.

Simply put it appears that some of us actually put some true weight to the word extraordinary.

[lordblazer]

Alright you dont have to put your 28 in my face just because i made a 26.

All I'm saying is that this arguement is idiotic.WE'll get to no conclusion simply because no one will come to a agreement.And this type of topic is a horrible topic.Its a topic you really can't have a intellgent debate over it.This topic has too much passion in it.How can you back up your facts do some crappy 30 minute internet research of blogs?Then post it on here.That won't work.Your saying a soldier's job is just like any other ordinary job you can half do and still get by.And Shun you posted your ACT scores which in my opinion shows arrogance.Simply put the people arguing and sayng that being a soldier is just like any ordinary thing. Really hasn't lived their lives outside their books.

[nik0tine]

All I'm saying is that this arguement is idiotic.WE'll get to no conclusion simply because no one will come to a agreement

Has anybody ever reached an agreement in EoTW?

And this type of topic is a horrible topic.Its a topic you really can't have a intellgent debate over it.

Maybe you should go back, and re-read some of my posts.

How can you back up your facts do some crappy 30 minute internet research of blogs?

We don't need very many facts for this debate.

Your saying a soldier's job is just like any other ordinary job you can half do and still get by.

Quite frankly, you're making up. You keep bringing up this point over and over again, and every single time it gets shot out of the water because NOBODY HAS SAID ANYTHING LIKE THIS!!! Everyone will agree that being a soldier is not an ordinary, every day job. However, we are simply saying that just because you are a soldier doesn't mean you are a hero. You don't like that opinion, so instead of debating, you try to twist my side of the argument into something it isn't. (And it isn't even REMOTELY close to it)

Simply put the people arguing and sayng that being a soldier is just like any ordinary thing. Really hasn't lived their lives outside their books.

Once again, for the 800th time, nobody is making this argument. I expect you to reply to this! I also expect you to either A) admit that what you have said is false (because it is) or B) attempt to somehow prove that you are right (Without quoting someone else and pretending it was me who said it)

[ShunNakamura]

Lordblazer... first and foremost if you happen to recall correctly.. other then my [blank] reading score I am ASHAMED for the most part for my scores. I used them because they were the best [blank] example I could come up with to show what I was trying to say. If it works it works.. doesn't matter if I gotta go out of the smurfing box.

As for your comment above I was just pointing out it was highly biased.. since both sides feel they are in the right and that the other side is blind, common sense if you ask me.

Btw perhaps with the scores I should have used hypothetical scores? I don't know but that isn't generaly the way I think. The best example is the one that actually happened, and I didn't have anyone else's ACT scores.

[Sunny Rabbiera]

of course the starter of this thread did not concider people who have lost relitives in war....
My father died in the first Gulf war, and I do concider him a hero.

he didnt go in for politics
he didnt go in for personal gain
in fact he hated George Bush (Sr) and what the war was about.
but he went in, he felt he still had a mission to do, and when he died at the hands of the enemy he went down in the grace of glory...

to call my father anything other then hero is nonsense, he died to protect his fellow soldiers and his nation.

[nik0tine]

This is where we disagree, Sunny. In my opinion, A hero makes a greater impact on the world than just 'dying to protect his country'. Lots of soldiers die to protect thier country. The individual soldier who fights and dies has no effect on the world. If it wasn't your father, it would have been somebody else. In my books a hero has to make a huge impact. They have to turn the tide of a battle, change the way people think, inspire people on mass to action.

Edit: I am not trying to deprive your father of the respect he deserves, but I am not going to deify the man either.

[Sunny Rabbiera]

So your saying that my fathers death was worthless?
then smeg off in that case!
he went in and sacrrificed his life to save others
just because his service didnt effect the entire world doesnt mean his service was in vain.

look I am sorry for swearing out like that, but my fathers death has really effected me. It took me years to get over a lot of the pain I went through