stem cells

[udsuna]

Oh, we ALLOW adult stem-cell research. We pump millions into it per year. It's the fetal stuff... which is the ONLY KIND that has shown any reasonable progress in the last few years... that we limit so thoroughly.

And I was using the letter examples thinking it was understood that your combination must spell a word in order to be a viable cell type found within the body. My fault, should have clarified. But working with stem cells is like trying to spell in a language which we don't know, using characters that we've never seen before. We don't even have the benefit of knowing what those characters are until we stumble across them.

Fetal stem cells, on the other hand, seem to program themselves. They do all the work FOR us... personally, I'm still against killing fetuses to acquire them. Even if the fetuses are going to be destroyed, anyways, because then people will use it for a "well, we're using these, why can't we go to the next step?". With some types of people, you give them an inch, and they'll take the whole damned country.

[Shoden]

if we did use adult stem cells then it would require a greater amount to get just one cell while embryotic stem cells need quite few the embryo's could be cloned if it wasnt banned or the human with the condition could be cloned and in the embryo process do whats needed doesnt that seem logical? i dont know much about it but its a theory

[Cloud No.9]

embryonic stem cells do not come from fetus. they come from an embreyo the size of a pin head. we are not talking something with human form at all. it is something to the untrained eye would appear the same as any other cell life form. it really should be a question of what is life? is life bigger than a pin head? is it in a human hair?

it's also appauling to think that here we are discussing the deaths of an organism no bigger than a pin head. while so many people die on this earth.

[udsuna]

Why does one human life, existing already, matter more or less than one that has yet to come into being? You call it appalling to value the fetus... I call it appalling to do anything ELSE... and thus, the debate on life continues. But that's for a different thread. This one's about the stem cells, themselves... not the other stuff.

And adult stem cells usually CAN'T turn into anything else. Not with our technology. The ones that make it through the body's process of turning them into normal cells, usually cannot transform at all. And the rest are probably not the pick of the primordial litter, either. Which is why they're such a pain in the backside to work with.

[Raistlin]

But the embryo could not progress. It would only "survive" roughly two weeks, and then it would terminate, because we can't produce a baby in a lab(yet, at least). It's not like in abortion, where the fetus would at least have the possibility of growing into a human baby; embryos in embryonic stem cell research don't even have that chance.

[Cloud No.9]

please people. we are not talking fetus's. this is not a qustion of terminating or aborting fetus's. we are not ripping them out of a mother's womb. it's the smallest thing that can be called human life. and it's vague at that. essentially it is a mircobe. so please rationalise this all down a little from the idea of a fetus.

[Gnostic Yevon]

It's still a human being created for the express purpose of making body parts for other people too. This is a road I'd rather not go down.

[Raistlin]

But it's not a human being, nor does it have even the slightest chance of ever becoming one.

[Gibsie]

It's still a human being created for the express purpose of making body parts for other people too. This is a road I'd rather not go down.

Actually, this is not the case at all. It's not like there are labs pumping out widdle human beings solely so that the scientists can rub their hands together and laugh evilly at the level of death they're causing. In fact the embryos used are those created - but not used - during IVF treatment.

Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010809-1.html

So really, everyone who gets all angry over embryonic stem cells should actually be out campaigning to get their local IVF treatment centres shut down. That's where the true evil is, people :rolleyes2

[udsuna]

Hey, being voluntarily disassembled for science or medicine is one's own choice. And, like I said before, "give an inch, and they'll take everything"... compare it to the anti-smoking laws, etc. Only, in this case, it's the opposite direction. Creating a lifeform (a HUMAN life) for the express and solitary purpose of using it for spare parts, that's what it is, no matter how you look at it. That is the truth, no question, the ethical issue is whether such a thing is *wrong* or not.

[Gibsie]

We have a failure to communicate. I have just explained how these human DNA containers are NOT created for the express purpose of being used for spare parts (We're not discussing organ harvesting, but anyway), but are a by-product of a process that occurs hundreds of times a day.

If all stem cell research were banned by Bush tomorrow, the exact same number of human embryos would still be created- the only difference is they'd basically be flushed down the toilet, whereas now they're being ujsed to help further our understanding of disease and so on. What a crime.

The ethical issue of whether it's okay to create embryos for this reason still stands, I guess, even if it isn't happening now. I guess everyone should just ask themselves if they'd have minded being used for this research when they were just a few days instead of becoming the person they are now. I wouldn't have cared, personally.

[Raistlin]

If all stem cell research were banned by Bush tomorrow, the exact same number of human embryos would still be created- the only difference is they'd basically be flushed down the toilet, whereas now they're being ujsed to help further our understanding of disease and so on. What a crime.

Exactly. It just doesn't make any sense - like people against being organ donors. What use do those people have for them once they're dead?

Yes, there's a matter of choice in organ donations, but the same logic stands - that otherwise they'd just go to waste.

[Sasquatch]

Exactly. It just doesn't make any sense - like people against being organ donors. What use do those people have for them once they're dead?

Yes, there's a matter of choice in organ donations, but the same logic stands - that otherwise they'd just go to waste.

The problem is, an organ donor would die anyway. Nobody says "Well, this guy's got a good chance, but he's a registered organ donor, and my dad needs a liver, so let's go ahead and whack him to get the goods." Organ donation is not used as as excuse to let somebody--or make somebody--give their life, whereas stem cells are.

Stem cells are also found in unbilical cords. Why can't we just use those? You know, so we don't have to murder any more babies?

[edczxcvbnm]

To my knowledge you wouldn't be able to build a new spin or something that isn't donateable from umbilical cord stem cells because the orginal cells have to be from that person. So if I need something new for the ol' spine then I need stem cells from me to be able to remake it. Any other person's stem cells would make a foriegn spine and my body would reject it.

[Raistlin]

Exactly. It just doesn't make any sense - like people against being organ donors. What use do those people have for them once they're dead?

Yes, there's a matter of choice in organ donations, but the same logic stands - that otherwise they'd just go to waste.

The problem is, an organ donor would die anyway. Nobody says "Well, this guy's got a good chance, but he's a registered organ donor, and my dad needs a liver, so let's go ahead and whack him to get the goods." Organ donation is not used as as excuse to let somebody--or make somebody--give their life, whereas stem cells are.

Stem cells are also found in unbilical cords. Why can't we just use those? You know, so we don't have to murder any more babies?

Those embryos will die anyway, too. They don't make it past two weeks - that's hardly killing babies.