Contempory FF games: Over criticised?

[Monol]

I....*speechless* wow.....

[ThroneofDravaris]

I want to post big tooooo (: First off, you're saying that the recent games are getting more criticism. It seems to me that they also get a lot more praise as well. Why? Because those are the only ones half the people are playing. Sadly very few of us actually played the Final Fantasies in order (or at least in as much order as we could since some weren't released). Or forgoeing order not many of us started with pre-32bit games. FF7 was the first for a lot of people, same with FFX. They either ignore the older games, or ignore their distaste for it, realizing they're older games and aren't meant to be just like the newer ones.

Again, on FF7's popularity. For a lot of people it was their first. And we know a lot of people equate their first (if they like it) as the best (which might also be argued for FF1 ;P) But... going back to the FFX stuff... People have the right to criticise FFX, not for doing what it does so very well. But for doing what it does... in a non-FF manner? It is perhaps a conservative view, but a lot of people felt FFX strayed too far from its roots, and therefor, too far from expectations. The Spirits Within fell victim to this mindset as well. As a stand-alone RPG FFX is one of the best. But as a FF... it's too digressed. There was a method to the FF madness set up in is previous installments that seemed slightly ignored in this game. It almost makes people feel cheated, or even lied to. :/

FF6 has always been one of my top favorites. I don't consider myself a fanatic. I've always been a niche gamer. I used to adore RPGs when the rest of the world hardly knew what those letters stood for. I'm not afraid to say I like FF7 better than 6. But I know, and always knew what 6 had going for it. But then I'm not even sure I'm in a good position to argue the case, because I'm not one of those people that chose 6 because of its convenience and lack of fanboys. I truely did enjoy the game. Before 6, the FFs I did play were just any other RPG to me. When 6 came along I was astounded, to say the least. I can't say much more, except I feel that 6 worked as a bridge between Classical and Modern. It was a keen mix of magic and technology. It's plot even revolved around the concept.

I probably look like one of those people that "simply hate newer FFs" because I didn't like 8. Not because of what was going for it. My main reason was it hit me in a time when I was falling out of video games. And Squall reminded me of everything I hated about myself at the time. I never talked, and when I did, I felt that whatever I had to say wasn't important anyway. I was alone, and I hated him for not taking advantage of everything he had around him. Friends he didn't care about, and a girl he treated like crap for half the game. I'm glad he came to his senses, but I couldn't shake the feeling of resentment he'd already instilled in me. If they had put at least a little more focus on the other characters I might have been able to shrug it off (I hated Tidus too, but at least I could take pleasure in scenes with Rikku). But what I hated about 8 in a gameplay aspect was it's requirement for magic and sidequests to be any good by the end of the game. You HAD to hunt down insane spells on far corners of the planet and junction them to your stats to get a decent rating. And for what? So you could do mildly okay in a melee attack? Honestly I realized the only thing you really need is Deffensive stats. You never need to attack because the damn game's battle system is based on ABUSING GFs to win any significant battle. I spent WAY too much time trying to find the right combination to junction to make my people decent fighters. It had nothing to do with their levels. Bottom line was there was a huge learning curve and a requirement for a lot of patience for very little results. In every other FF before it, you could ignore the extras and be fairly badass (not completely, but not bad either) by the end of the game no matter what. In 8 if you ignore this stuff, you're dust halfway through the game. When I beat the game I was done. There were things I liked (like Rinoa XD) but seriously not worth going back for and put up with that stuff again. I don't care how much more fleshed out him and her were than other FF characters before them.

To me Celes and Locke went through a lot of the same stuff. Their emotions just weren't put on display in front of the camera, but if you use your imagination, Squall and Rinoa aren't that much more fleshed out, and certainly aren't that much different.

I don't know why the newer games can't seem to appeal to me... 8 and onward have conssistently put something in to completely turn me off. I forced myself to stomach all of 9, and that was actually a pretty damn good game. But it was a chore to me. I never even bothered to finish X. I'm at the last battles. My save is like 2 years old. Haven't touched it since. Just not bothered... I just don't know. I've typed enough though. So I'm not going to analyze my feelings on recent FFs and try and find an answer XD Square isn't loosing money on me.

Edit: One more thing ;P I'll see youre "FF1 is crap" when compared to RPGs as a whole. But I never saw it as that. It was a repetitive adventure game where the repetitive parts you either love or hate. Somehow I didn't (and still don't) mind them. Don't know why. But it's no different than playing Tetris or Bomberman for a couple hours to me. But seriously, you at least have to respect FF1. If it hadn't happened, then very likely the FF games you love so much would have never been spawned (:

I really don’t see how FFX has diverged from the other FF games. I terms of what? It was still rather medieval in terms of the technology used, it just begins in a technologically advance society. It has small amounts of Technology woven into the game, just like 6 did, which appears to be one of your favourites. It still maintains Chocobos, moogles (to a small extent), magic, summons, it has a story line closer to the original FF games than any of the other contemporary games (save FFIX, of course), so really, apart from great graphics and voice acting, why is it so vastly different from the classical FF games?

As for your point on 8, that you had to finish side quests in order to progress the story, I don’t really understand you r view either. It took a hell of a long time to learn any of the decent spells in FF6, and all of them you receive from “side quests”. In fact, most of the second half of FF6 consisted of optional quests, as you could go to the final dungeon after relocation only 4 characters! Really, has their ever been a FF game that didn’t require you to have decent items/spells by the end of the game to do well? Besides, it’s not hard to receive the best spells in FF8, you can just refine them from items. Over course, if you missed the GF’s along the way, some spells will be harder to get, but almost all of the Gf’s can be drawn from the linear bosses in the game.

As for FF1, I do respect it as the first step towards the great FF games we have today. What I don’t respect, however, is those who claim that contemporary FF games are terrible compared to the classical ones, while they blatantly ignore the fact that bny today’s standards, FF1 is a piece of crap.

You have way too much free time on your hands.

Look, EVERY FF game is heavily criticized from people within the FF community. If you look at more mainstream opinions of the series, things tend to be a lot more positive and complimentary. Many people seem to hate FFXII with a furvor unlike any I've ever witnessed, and the game hasn't even come out yet. When I read magazine reviews they tend to say things more like "amazing graphics! detailed character models! ALL NEW battle system! check out these crazy screenshots!"

I'm getting sick of the haterade. Every 5 seconds someone just HAS to chime in with...

FFI SUCKED! It had no plot or characters and the graphics suck!
FFII SUCKED! The characters were dumb and the stat system was weak!
FFIII SUCKS! It's only coming out for DS and I hate Nintendo for making kiddy games!
FFIV SUCKS! The characters are dumb, the plot is stupid and simple and there's too many random encounters!
FFV SUCKS! The characters have no personality and the plot is boring!
FFVI SUCKS! It's way too easy, the graphics are lame and the story completely falls apart when you reach WoR!
FFVII SUCKS! It made Square sell out and the graphics are horrible! The sound and music sound like they were done on a Casio!
FFVIII SUCKS! Junctioning was lame and the characters were given NOOOOO development!
FFIX SUCKS! It has kiddy graphics and the dialogue is terrible!
FFX SUCKS! The voice acting is horrible and it has blitzball!
FFX-2 SUCKS! It was only made to make more money!
FFXI SUCKS! It's online so it's not a real FF! It's just Square's way of trying to take every last penny you own!
FFXII SUCKS! They took out random encounters! Enix made Square sell out!
All these FFVII sequels SUCK! They're just milking FFVII for everything it's worth when all we wanted was a remake!
FFCC SUCKS! It's not a real FF and it has no summons! It's made for GC so it's too kiddy!

I mean, really. Doesn't anyone just play these games because they like them anymore?

Err, I’m not entirely sure what your point is. You seem to agree with me, that the contemporary FF games are over criticized, that was the point of my post…

And your right, I do have too much time on my hands. That's why I still play video games when i could be doing something useful with my life...

[leeza]Do not double post. ~ Leeza[/leeza]

[Ultima Shadow]

FF6: Hey, there’s nothing wrong with this game, it’s probably the best Snes game I’ve ever played, and the graphics are great for it’s time. But to claim it’s the best FF game? The game has an immaturity to it that overshadows many of the games more dark moments (The poisoning of Doma, Celes’ attempted suicide). Kefka, while entertaining, only made the game harder to perceive as a “serious” FF game. Also, the lack of a main character caused the game to loose about direction halfway through.

I actually dissagree this time.

A game that's too serious all the time would just be boring. I think the seriousness and non-seriousness is perfectly balanced in FFVI. And as for the lack of a main character... I just liked the fact that almost all the characters could be considered a main character. But that's just me, I guess....

Oh, and in my opinion... graphic is probably the least important thing about games. I really don't care much at all and as long as I actually can see everything on the screen without hurting my eyes, it's good enough for me. I actually "like" the graphic style in FFIV and FFV a lot.

[Primus Inter Pares]

Oh, and in my opinion... graphic is probably the least important thing about games. I really don't care much at all and as long as I actually can see everything on the screen without hurting my eyes, it's good enough for me. I actually "like" the graphic style in FFIV and FFV a lot.

Yah, I agree with Ultima Shadow on this, graphics aren't that important when comparing classic and contemporary FF games.
However:
DJZen has a very good point, all the FF games have been critizised at some point. We can pretty much agree that they were all high quality and entertaining games (apart from XI). So why fight it? Sure some of the games were better but none (apart from XI) were crap!

Vyk: So what you are saying is that you disliked FFVIII because it was challenging and intellectually stimulating? That was one of the great things about 8: the fact that you needed to use something apart from your thumbs.

IMAO FF 9 was the best game with other contemporaries coming close however I do think that the classic FF games have been unfairly critizised at the same level as the contemporaries. Throne of Dravaris made a pretty pointless post: Sure the contemporaries have been critizised unfairly (apart from XI) but so has the classics.

Can't we all just love FF in peace?

[ThroneofDravaris]

Oh, and in my opinion... graphic is probably the least important thing about games. I really don't care much at all and as long as I actually can see everything on the screen without hurting my eyes, it's good enough for me. I actually "like" the graphic style in FFIV and FFV a lot.

Yah, I agree with Ultima Shadow on this, graphics aren't that important when comparing classic and contemporary FF games.
However:
DJZen has a very good point, all the FF games have been critizised at some point. We can pretty much agree that they were all high quality and entertaining games (apart from XI). So why fight it? Sure some of the games were better but none (apart from XI) were crap!

Vyk: So what you are saying is that you disliked FFVIII because it was challenging and intellectually stimulating? That was one of the great things about 8: the fact that you needed to use something apart from your thumbs.

IMAO FF 9 was the best game with other contemporaries coming close however I do think that the classic FF games have been unfairly critizised at the same level as the contemporaries. Throne of Dravaris made a pretty pointless post: Sure the contemporaries have been critizised unfairly (apart from XI) but so has the classics.

Can't we all just love FF in peace?

Oh yes, you’re so sure that classic FF games are just as unfairly criticized as contemporary ones? Well, lets try a quick google search shall we: “FF(n) was crap”
Let’s see the results:

FF1: 2
FF2: 0
FF3: 0
FF4: 0
FF5: 0
FF6: 0
FF7: 36
FF8: 28
FF9: 14
FF10: 10

Now let’s check the roman numerals:

FFI: 0

FFII: 0

FFIII: 0

FFIV: 0

FFVI: 1

FFVII: 2

FFVIII: 11

FFIX: 16

FFX: 46

FFX-2: 21

Yes, Classical FF games are JUST as criticized as the contemporary ones all right. Even in your own post, you were insulting FFXI, what does that tell you? Yet for some reason, MY post is pointless.

As for your point on graphics, you and Ultima Shadow are right, graphics don’t make games great on their own. However, poor/old graphics really makes it hard to enjoy the earlier FF games, the transition is hard to adjust to.

EDIT: by the way, this is the message I got when I was searching for "FFIII was Crap"

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...+crap%22&meta=

Even google hates FFVIII!

[Ultima Shadow]

EDIT: by the way, this is the message I got when I was searching for "FFIII was Crap"

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=e...+crap%22&meta=

Even google hates FFVIII!

XD!!! That actually made me LAUGH OUT LOUD!

As for your point on graphics, you and Ultima Shadow are right, graphics don’t make games great on their own. However, poor/old graphics really makes it hard to enjoy the earlier FF games, the transition is hard to adjust to.

By earlier, I hope you mean FFI-FFIII. FFIV is perfectly fine for me. But yes... of course, better graphic makes the game easier to enjoy in most cases. But I've always only seen good graphic as a "bonus". A game with good graphic looks cooler but average graphic won't make it less fun to play in any way.

Oh, well... people have different tastes though. I have a friend who refuse to play games with worse graphic than FFX. :rolleyes2

[DJZen]

Steiner was more than enough to make it medieval.

That's like saying Sippowitz is more than enough to make NYPD Blue a western. FFIX is more rennaisance than anything. If it were medieval we'd have more roughly hewn thatched roof cottages for Tro... Bahamut to burninate.


My point in that lengthy post is that saying "FFI SUCKS! FFX PWNZ!" is just as annoying as saying "FFX SUCKS! FFI PWNZ!" I don't like it much when people whine about how "all the new games suck!", about how Square has sold out, lost its touch, etc., but it's just as annoying when someone comes along and says "all the old games were horrible!". If you don't like it, fine, no one's forcing you to. Just remember, one man's trash is another man's treasure. That holy cow you're attempting to berate is someone's fond childhood memory.

[Craig]

I agree with alot of the things you said, I also have a few points to make of my own.

I think although you are right in many ways, the older FFs had less room to make mistakes as they were very basic, and were just simple and fun games.

I also think that it's unfair to say people boycott FF games for being original, although I'm sure this is true to a certain extent, just because something is original, doesn't make it good.

That last statement wasn't reffering to any particular FF, I think they are all good.

[ThroneofDravaris]

Steiner was more than enough to make it medieval.

That's like saying Sippowitz is more than enough to make NYPD Blue a western. FFIX is more rennaisance than anything. If it were medieval we'd have more roughly hewn thatched roof cottages for Tro... Bahamut to burninate.


My point in that lengthy post is that saying "FFI SUCKS! FFX PWNZ!" is just as annoying as saying "FFX SUCKS! FFI PWNZ!" I don't like it much when people whine about how "all the new games suck!", about how Square has sold out, lost its touch, etc., but it's just as annoying when someone comes along and says "all the old games were horrible!". If you don't like it, fine, no one's forcing you to. Just remember, one man's trash is another man's treasure. That holy cow you're attempting to berate is someone's fond childhood memory.

And what about all those people like myself, for whom FFX was there first FF game? I have fond memories of FFX, but when someone berates this game, no one pipes up with “Hey, that games a classic! You just don’t appreciate decent games” and other elitist crap like that. The point I’m trying to make is that FF1 has many shortcomings as a game, so why should they be ignored any more than the flaws in FFX? I don’t “hate” all classical FF games, what I hate is how people always assume that anything made nowadays was pathetic compared to something made over a decade ago.

[Ultima Shadow]

The point I’m trying to make is that FF1 has many shortcomings as a game, so why should they be ignored any more than the flaws in FFX?

Well... obiviously, one of the reasons is that there's a lot more people who have played FFX than there is who have played FFI... and therefore there's also more people who notice and moan about the flaws in FFX than in FFI. That's probably also one of the reasons that the older games get bashed more than the older ones. There's simply people who completely forgets about the very existence of the older games or just don't bother.

...And then there IS those mindless fools who just talks before they think.

[Gwelenguchenkus]

What the topic creator doesn't seem to understand is that no matter how many catagories you "ANALIZE", it doesn't mean anything at all.

Why?

Because people have opinions. Is it so hard to believe that someone could hate FFX and dislike playing it?

Is it so hard to believe that that person also loves FF1 because it's challenging?

I mean SURE, FFX has better graphics, gameplay, etc., but even FF1 has it's own unique qualities. However hard it is for you to believe someone could prefer it, there is someone out there.

That's why FFX > FF1 can never be anything more than your opinion.

[Ultima Shadow]

Is it so hard to believe that someone could hate FFX and dislike playing it?

Is it so hard to believe that that person also loves FF1 because it's challenging?

No, not at all.

But it IS hard to belive that people who say thing like: "OMG!!! FFX IS AWFUL!!! EVERYTHING ABOUT IT IS SO BAD!!! FF1 RULEZ AND FFX SUX SOOO MUCH!!!!111" and makes treads only to bash the game as much as possible, actually have an IQ higher than 12.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

FF10 had great music. FF1…

FFI had great music.

Perhaps a better example can be found in FF6, dubbed by many as the “best” FF game. The strange thing is, this is actually a rather recent opinion.

Not at all. I remember hearing plenty of people tell me that at least as far back as 1997.

once, just once I would like to see a ‘FF1 is crap post”.

There are tons of people out there who think FFI is a terrible game.

[Vyk]

Vyk: So what you are saying is that you disliked FFVIII because it was challenging and intellectually stimulating? That was one of the great things about 8: the fact that you needed to use something apart from your thumbs

I guess that was my point. But I didn't really mean it in that manner. Though I do prefer mindless fun over a game of chess or something. But mental stimulation is a hard thing to grasp as a concept for entertainment. FF8 made you think at least a little, I won't deny that, and I won't say it's a bad thing. But the manner in which it did it just wasn't for me. But like I've said, I'm not here to bash games. I'm glad people love it for what it is.

A game that's too serious all the time would just be boring. I think the seriousness and non-seriousness is perfectly balanced in FFVI. And as for the lack of a main character... I just liked the fact that almost all the characters could be considered a main character. But that's just me, I guess....

I completely agree with this. Not because I'm biased. This adds to the reasons I am biased in the first place. Also I think it should be noted, that with this balance came the ability for a game to be both serious and charming. I think that's what's lacking (at least for me) in the more recent games. A game should have its own personality. Before ANYTHING the game itself needs personality. That's why people like FF1. The characters didn't have personality, but the game itself did. In FFX, the characters were loaded with personality. But to me the game itself as a whole didn't have any.

Now this isn't to say that newer FFs will never have the ability to capture my interest because they focus too much on the characters, settings, plot, and music to capture a whole "more than the sum of its parts". They just haven't yet, to me. The newer FFs are (again, to me) ONLY the sum of their parts. Nothing more. It's that something that's lacking to me, and it's a pity. I just wish I knew what that something was.

[Alice]

I myself started with 9, then 8, then 7, x-2, x, and currently working on FF1, With each one there is something great, and I love all of them (some more than others, but love is love)...

IM excited to see what will happen with 12 because itd be great to see what new inventions they come up with. The thing I like about FF is what it delivers to the Fantasy lovers, by creating vast worlds and original creatures and powers.. thats always what ive loved about them and each one has its own specialty. I never really critisize the games, I just try to take them all in and understand what the POINT was, which is where i think most people r playing wrong.. they r playing because, its just a game...

to me, its more than a game, its a world i go to get away