Contempory FF games: Over criticised?

[squareSOFT]

I love how you guys skip over everything you can't answer. First off, one of you guys said, "your whole post was off-topic but this one phrase" (where I said the older games are better), and then completely left out the entire rest of my post where I showed my reasonings(I seem to be the only one discussing reality here) as to why the newer games are worse.

Secondly, how did I insult anyone by my "all of your opinions are invalid" comment? Ever heard of a joke? People always skip FFT.

Thirdly, I metioned FFT because it's focus is solely on plot, characters and development, battle-system, and magic-system, which are my chief values concerning RPGs.

Fourthly, I said going to 3D graphics has a tendency to over-emphasize graphics. Tendency, not fact. As proof, I suggest FF8, FF10, and FFX-2.

Lastly, I patiently explained my values as to what I consider a good RPG, explained how FF8, FF9, FFX, and FFX-2(the newer games) leveled up with those values compared to other FFs, and then to other RPGs...and I'm giving tired old reasons? It seems to me that I'm the only one giving actual reasons for the things I say, and I get jumped on because I don't share the popular opinion.

And if I sounded condescending, your arguments were irrational. Attacking my argument itself is foolish - it's my reasons that are in question, and I have yet to see any comments on those.

And I could Warn most of you, but I find this all terribly amusing.

Just a thought: here's how this discussion has been going, in political form:

Me: I don't like Bush for this, this, and this.
You guys: Bush rules! You just don't like Republican presidents!
Me; huh?

Ah, well, shows me to try to incorporate logic in my arguments.

Do you even have a point? Or are you going to continue to sputter on about illogical arguments and the like? Please could you make a fresh posts that clearly defines what you believe In relation to the topic. Then arguments could actually be made about the topic, instead of who's being a moron and such.

[Monol]

Its arguments like these that make me love FF even more

[Gwelenguchenkus]

I've already discussed my indesputable (joke) opinion on this matter, but there is really no sense in calling anyone a moron in this arguement.

Raistlin has given his opinion, so why should he be insulted as such?

I love FFIX personally. Someone can say 'The ability system was annoying' another can say 'it didn't bother me, and I liked it'. Someone could say 'the plot was just a rehash of ast FFs' while someone else thinks its original and incorporates aspects of the old FF well. It's all a matter of opinion, right? So what is the big fuss about?

The reason the character design in FFIX was SOOOO different, by the way, was partially because there was a different illustrator, and an old character designer returned (amano). While, if the illustrator of FF8 illustrated from amano's designs, you might have gotten something much different than what you see.

The 'odd looking characters' didn't have much to do with being 'old school' in my opinion. It was totally original, even much different than any of the old school stuff I've seen! Sure we have a black mage, a dragoon, etc, but Vivi doesn't look like a typical black mage of old, and Freya CERTAINLY doesn't look like Kain, at all really. Tell me how the 3D art in the game, whether it is 'deformed' or not, corresponds to the old 2D sprites? Do you think the characters in 1-6 would be made to look similar to FF9 if remadein 3D the way 'they were intended to look'? That is all a matter of opinion.

< Discussion on FFT >

FFT does NOT just have 'FF slapped on it'. It is indeed a Final Fantasy in every respect.

However, it is not part of the main series. FFT was created by a totally different developing team at the time. Now, many of those people are working on FFXII, but back then, it was different.

FFT has a uniqe style not of the FF series. Before people jump on me saying that 'all the FFs are different' this is indeed true, but EVERY FINAL FANTASY RELEASED so far has been made by similar people. A few are switched out, sure, but a lot of it still has te same feel.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10(partially) -- Nobuo Uematsu made music for all of them. Different styles along the way? Sure!

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, -- Amano made the original character designs. However, except for 9, he was pretty much replaced with Tetsuya Nomura, who did 7, 8, 10...

Change? Indeed, but the main FF series has always stuck with the traditional random battles with 3 or 4 (5 for FF4) characters who you use in a team who have a variety of attacks who kill the enemies.

There has almost always been a fleshed out world map to traverse freely, with forests , etc.

These are things typical of the main FF series. They have their own style. However, they may be vastly different in other ways, there are some core attributes that give the title a roman numeral after it.

Final Fantasy Tactics has no roman numeral. It is a spin-off game, still made by square with many familiar themes, but has a much different battle system, thus it does not get a number, but 'tactics' signfying that this is THE tactics Final Fantasy, not the main series. An FF game, but different because it has a tacics twist, if you will.


< / Discussion on FFT >

[ThroneofDravaris]

You see, I was under the impression that articuable wasn’t a real word…

First of all

Main Entry: ar·tic·u·la·ble
Pronunciation: är-'ti-ky&-l&-b&l
Function: adjective
: capable of being expressed, explained, or justified

Why? Because FF7 came before FFT? I don’t consider FFT a contemporary FF game because it was very different from all of the other FF games, classical and contemporary alike

Second of all

con·tem·po·rar·y P Pronunciation Key (kn-tmp-rr)
adj.
Belonging to the same period of time
Of about the same age.
Current; modern:


Now if I am right FFT was released after FF7. Thus by the argument of correct word usage I can safely say that if FF7 is contemporary so is FFT. End of that arguement.

FFT’s story line is almost void of any FF references, remove the FF jobs and monsters and it wouldn’t be a FF game at all. FF games always have a focus on summons, crystals or magic. None of these things play an important part to the story of FFT, thus it bears no real relevance to this thread

Finally, the game is definately a FF game.. I don't know how one could confuse it otherwise. It follows the lead of having a "Cid" in it. It has the traditional monsters. The job system is a modified FFV job system(for the most part). It has cloud in it, it does use crystals albeit in a new fashion. So who is the one discriminating for trying something "new".

Oh yes there is more than that I am certian that links it to the FF series.. but first, I have to get ready for a ceremony, and two it is taking a bit of time to think about FFT since it has been awhile since I last played.

As a last note. You do realize that the individual FF games tend not to link as much as some think... what are the links between 6 and 5 or between 8 and 7? Just about the only one you can easily claim links for is X and X-2(or so hearsay says).

Boy do I wish I had FFIX so that I could hop into the heat of this instead of fenching the edges.

Yes, articulable is a word, but articuable is not. I was making a small joke…no one found it funny?I do know what the word contemporary means; obviously I don’t consider FFT a contemporary FF game because it's very different from the rest. Even though FF games are supposed to be stand-alone, they all have similar aspects to game play or themes compared to the game before them. This linear progression isn’t present in FFT, it strays away from the genre to the stage that, as the name would imply, it’s more of a game of tactics rather than an RPG.

Also, Raistlin’s was using FFT as a comparison in relation to contemporary FF games, so even if FFT was considered contemporary, he missed the point of the thread. He was supposed to prove that Classical FF games were so much better than Contemporary ones that they didn’t deserve as much criticism, instead he rambled on about how great FFT was, when nobody was debating the fact.

Oh, and I was hardly discriminating against FFT because it was “new”. I just feel that a break-away game like FFT can't possible prove that Contemporary FF games aren’t over criticized, at least not in the manner that anyone has presented so far.

[ShunNakamura]

Right, right. I sorta follow what you are saying there. Anyways, I don't know if it is any more overcriticised then anything else is. In our modern world in which the contempories were released, everything is criticised more then it was. So I tell you to blame it on the progression of time and society. People need to be a bit more laid back I think.. including myself.

[Del Murder]

Either I like the game, or I don't. Turns out I like all of them. It doesn't really bother me if others want to criticize it. I don't really see the point of caring if other people like a game or not, or why you would want to argue about it over and over, unless it was to waste time, but then again it doesn't really bother me if other people do. We all like different things.

Try to keep it civilized, though.

[Flying Mullet]

If someone revives my “Contemporary FF games: over criticized?” thread I would be eternally grateful.

It was too young to die….

Don't leave home without it.

[ThroneofDravaris]

...Screw it, it's better than nothing!

*bows*

[Primus Inter Pares]

Well done, you saved christmas...

[ThroneofDravaris]

Anyway, before it dies again, there is one amendment I would like to make to my original post:

FFIV is an awesome game, once you get into it. I would put it above FFV in my FF preference order.

That is all.

[Destai]

Anyway, before it dies again, there is one amendment I would like to make to my original post:

FFIV is an awesome game, once you get into it. I would put it above FFV in my FF preference order.

That is all.

Im fighting Zeromus right now .Well Im right in front of him and havent been bothered to tackle the final fight for a few years. Anyway I dont think its that great.

[ThroneofDravaris]

Well, it's better than what I said it was originally.

It's better than FFV at least

[raskerino]

Wow, interesting thread.

I agree with Throne of Davaris for the most part although I would phrase it differently. I think it's pretty clear that the "contemporary" games do have more in-depth storylines (not better but more in-depth). They do spend more time developing characters in the "contemporary" games. Also the graphics are stronger although not neccasarily better done, I base how strong graphics are for how nicely they're done not how powerful the engine making them is. But it comes down to people will like some games more than others. They will get turned off by some games and they will love others with or without a rational reason. However I think that there is a lot more depth in contemporary games. People call the characters in FF8 shallow yet in fact you see more of squall's feelings than any other character in an ff (I'm pretty sure of this). I think he's a good example of how there is more depth in contemporary characters. I also feel that contemporary games have more potential, as the plots are more thought out imo (usually) and they do spend more time developing them.

Lastly I think this thread could've been much more interesting if it hadn't been filled with insults stuck in at every chance certain people get.

That was my rant, I hope that it was "rational" and "on topic" because it was meant to be...

Edit: I really tried to not state things as fact, which is something that has been horribly abused in this thread.

[ThroneofDravaris]

Hey, someone actually read everything *impressed*

Certain people? Oh right, you mean me…

Well, I was knew when this thread was started. If I had realized that Raistlin was a long standing member here I probably wouldn’t have gone out of my way to insult him…

Seriously though, Tactics had nothing to do with anything…

[raskerino]

Definitely not only u, and no tactics didn't have anything to do with it (although he didn't know that immediately). I think u definitely brought up an interesting topic with this thread. I get bugged at how much people attack games but then again how defensive and pointlessly insulting people get can be just as bad (was that on subject? let's hope so).

Edit: Oh yeah, I'm also not trying to insult u, I thought a lot of what u said was really well thought out, though it did head down hill, as the thread did.