Contempory FF games: Over criticised?

[ThroneofDravaris]

Long post, probably contains spoilers, you’ve been warned

I’ve been considering a post I made in reply to the post “One of the Worst FF’s Ever!” on the FF9 forum.

I think you missed the point of FFIX. It was supposed to be a reflection upon all of the Classical FF game (ie, 1-6) rather than a stand alone game in itself. If FFIX was lacking in a story ( I didn’t think so, but that’s obviously your opinion), it was because most of the original FF games had very vague story lines as well (except 6, which had one of the best), all the focus was put on game play and side quests. FFIX was supposed to show people that, at one time, FF games used to be good

I’ve been reconsidering my final line on this post. Obviously, the main reason for my statement was spite (I noticed the poster was using a Tidus Avatar), but I’ve been wondering lately, is this statement at all true?

It seems that the more recent Final Fantasy game (i.e. 7+), especially FF8 and 10-2, receive much more criticism than any of the classical Final Fantasy games, but is this really because the latter is better, or is it because of something else entirely?

Consider this, FF10 vs. FF1

1. FF10 had a involved plot. FF1 had very basic one.
2. FF10 had characters with unique personalities. In FF1, the characters didn’t actually have personalities.
3. FF10 had amazing graphics. FF1, well…
4. FF10 had a unique battle system. FF1 had a very basic one.
5. FF10 had great music. FF1…

As you can see, in all of the major categories for RPG’s, FF10 easily outclasses FF1. So why, then does FF10 receive so much criticism, while FF1 remains holy ground? The simple answer, of course, is that FF1 is over a decade older than FF10, which gives it an excuse for being crap. But what I really don’t understand is when people make statements such as “FF1 is better than FF10”. Even if it is a “classic”, there are simply not enough aspects in which FF1 outclasses FF10 to make it the superior game.

Perhaps a better example can be found in FF6, dubbed by many as the “best” FF game. The strange thing is, this is actually a rather recent opinion. For many years, FF7 held the title as the greatest FF game ever. Just to prove a point, here’s a list of the top 10 sales of FF games as printed in Gamepro Magazine:

1. Final Fantasy VII
2. Final Fantasy X
3. Final Fantasy VIII
4. Final Fantasy IX
5. Final Fantasy X-2
6. Final fantasy Tactics
7. Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced
8. Final Fantasy Anthology
9. Final fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
10. Final Fantasy Chronicles

As you can see, the popularity of FF7 is reflected in its sales. Not only that, but FF7 has 4 follow-ups in progress at the moment, 3 of which are games. So what has suddenly cause people to change their minds? Ironically, it has probably been caused by the popularity of FF7 itself. Since its release, FF7 has spawned a staggering amount of utterly devoted and mindless gamers; I can almost hear the phase “SEPHIROTH RULZ” repeated over and over in my head as I write this. These fanatics have managed to over-hype the game beyond belief and quite frankly, it’s as annoying as hell. These FF7/Cloud/Sephiroth “fan boys”, as they have become known, have become generally despised by other final Fantasy gamers. Most players seem to blame the way FF games have gone mainstream for drawing in these people in the first place. This has caused them to change their opinions of FF7, they now needed to lavish their attention on some other game, one that wasn’t so “popular”.

So why choose FFVI? FFVI, or III as it was originally known in the US, had gone largely unnoticed when it was released on the Snes. There was nothing really outstanding about the game, it didn’t cause anything like the commotion 7 made. The reason it was chosen, however, is because it managed to keep all of the trademark FF ideology, yet also incorporated a decent story line. More importantly though, there was no sign of an “emotionally tortured” protagonist or a “visually appealing” antagonist. Although, what people don’t seem to realize, or blatantly ignore, is that FF6 is closer to FF7 than people think. Just like FF7, 6 incorporates a large amount of technology into the story, playing a large part in the plot, which is what most people say sets classical FF games apart from the rest. What it lacks, which was greatly improved upon in 7, is maturity. While FF7 had a theme of revenge, FF6’s theme is friendship. I’m not saying that this is a bad thing, it’s just that it takes the edge off a story that could have been really dark. Also, the few mature themes that have been incorporated into the game are dealt with half heartedly. This may be due in part to the influence of Nintendo, although I think that this company is used to often as an excuse for the fact that in the end, the Classical FF games were aimed at people younger than those who play the contemporary games. So is FF6 really the superior game, or does it simply look better now that FF7 has had its image tarnished by fanatics?

Really though, FF7 is probably the least criticised of the contemporary FF games. My thoughts now go to FFVIII. The amount of people that hate this game is simply amazing, and most of them hate it for the same key reasons. Firstly, people say that the game was too futuristic, which is one of the main reasons people seemed to dislike the contemporary FF games in the first place. What I don’t understand is why people have such a hard time dealing with the transition. The last two games before it, VI and VII, were both semi-futuristic, so was it so wrong to go all out with FFVIII? I really don’t see how it makes it any less of a fantasy, as people claim. What really annoys me though, is how people reacted to the Junctioning system. My question to you: Was it really that difficult to learn? You are given several tutorials in game that help you learn the basics, what more could you need. What’s more, it was based on the Esper and Materia system, the only difference was that you could use magic to increase your statistics. Junctioning actually managed to make magic a important aspect of the plot, for once magic was EXPLAINED. People seemed to dislike the characters in this game as well, calling them shallow and underdeveloped. Hmm, shall I make a list of 2D FF characters?
1. Everyone from FF5
2. Gau
3. Umaru
4. Gogo
5. Sabin
6. Mog
7. Cait Sith
8. Tifa
9. Vincent
10. Quina
11. Amarant

All of these characters were given far less development than any off the characters in FF8, most games tend to have their supporting characters abused to make room for the Protagonists. People complain about Rinoa a lot, why? Because she was selfish? Because she was loud? Because she was a coward? News flash: SHE WAS A SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL. Their all loud and self-centered. She was supposed to contrast with Squall, who was stoic, brave and…well still selfish but you get the picture. Finally, people thought Ultimecia was a stupid antagonist. Well, let me ask you this: was she worse than X-Death? That’s what I thought. So she appeared towards the end of the game, it’s not like that’s ever happened in an FF game before (sarcasm). Seriously though, how can anyone hate a game when every attack that you make can potentially be a Limit Break?

Of all the contemporary FF games, the way people react to FFIX confuses me the most. I don’t get it, people complain about the direction Square took with FF8, saying they liked things better the way they were. Yet when Square actually listens to the players, and makes a game based on what people liked, everyone reacts with indifference. I’m serious; there are people that don’t care that this game ever existed. It’s a crime for anyone to have not played this game; it’s the embodiment of everything great about the Final Fantasy series. To all those classic FF fans out there: You got your Medieval setting back, so why aren’t you playing this game?! Every character is developed t some extent (save Quina), all the characters have independent roles, the antagonist has some actual depth, what more could you want? Let me reiterate: Anyone who didn’t play this game should be shot.

Finally, lets look at X/X-2. Yes, o.k. Tidus and Yuna are easily the most annoying protagonists even featured in a FF game. And yes, X-2 is a waste of money, even if it did go platinum. I wish X-2 was never made, as it seems to have ruined the reputation of one of the best FF games in the series. Obviously, it has the best graphics in the series; the FMV’s are simply amazing. The story line is much more complex than people give it credit for (no one seemed to understand exactly what Sin was). Each of the characters are given a decent amount of development, more so than any other FF game to date. The technology has been limited in this game; it’s about the same as 6. The battle system is new and unique; we finally get a break from that stupid ATB system. The antagonist (it was Seymour by the way, not Sin) is developed with some though, you actually feel sorry for him towards the end. The game is riddled with Mini-games and Side-quests, and the game has more optional bosses than you can poke a stick at. So what really is so terrible about this game? You can just assume a game is crap just because it has great graphics, which is sadly how I think many people view it. Sometimes I get the feeling that players have some sort of animosity against change.

So to conclude, here is a quick summary of my opinions on each FF game (some broad categories to begin with).

FFI-IV: Just because a game was made 10 years ago doesn’t automatically make it better than all the rest. Of corse, it’s different if you played these games before all the rest, but I would say that would be a minority of “Classical FF fans”. If you’ve played FFX, don’t bother with FFI-III, the graphics make these games unbearable. IV’s still a possibility.

FFV: The job system is fun, but it doesn’t save an otherwise vanilla game.

FF6: Hey, if you actually believe 6 is the best, then that’s fine, it is a decent game. But if you’re just saying it because you feel it makes you superior to all those FF7 fans out there, what exactly are you proving?

FF7: To all you “fan-boys” out there: Seriously, curb your enthusiasm a little. I know, it’s a great game, but your annoying the hell out of the rest of us. You got your movie (which looks great by the way) so take it down a notch.

FF8: If you’re intelligent enough to understand Juctioning, then you’ll realise that this game isn’t nearly as bad as what everyone says it is. So what if it wasn’t what you expected, at least make an attempt to enjoy it.

FF9: Play the game damn it. If you don’t, your no better than all those Halo fans who don’t seem to realise what a first person shooter is (….Halo sucks).

FFX: So what if it has great graphics, great sound, a decent battle system and challenging side quests, IS THAT REALLY A BAD THING?

FFX-2: Err, well, X was good wasn’t it? Hehe…

Well that’s the end of this long and incredibly biased rant. In short, lay off the criticism of contemporary FF games, and please: once, just once I would like to see a ‘FF1 is crap post”. Just for once, someone tell it like it is.

[Destai]

Kickass post. seriously.

[DMKA]

*applauds*

I get so sick of "OMG FFX SUCKS CAUSE THERE'S NO WORLD MAP AND THERE IS VOICE ACTING OMG OMG OMG!' and then "OMG FFX-2 IS GAY BECAUSE SQUARE ACTUALLY TRIED A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING WITH THE SERIES FOR ONCE! ORIGINALITY SUCKS!"...

Then you ask them how far they got and they say "omg I didn't play that crap for more than 5 minutes!"....yeah.

[PearlRose]

Awesome post. Well thought-out and wonderfully worded.

[Vyk]

I want to post big tooooo (: First off, you're saying that the recent games are getting more criticism. It seems to me that they also get a lot more praise as well. Why? Because those are the only ones half the people are playing. Sadly very few of us actually played the Final Fantasies in order (or at least in as much order as we could since some weren't released). Or forgoeing order not many of us started with pre-32bit games. FF7 was the first for a lot of people, same with FFX. They either ignore the older games, or ignore their distaste for it, realizing they're older games and aren't meant to be just like the newer ones.

Again, on FF7's popularity. For a lot of people it was their first. And we know a lot of people equate their first (if they like it) as the best (which might also be argued for FF1 ;P) But... going back to the FFX stuff... People have the right to criticise FFX, not for doing what it does so very well. But for doing what it does... in a non-FF manner? It is perhaps a conservative view, but a lot of people felt FFX strayed too far from its roots, and therefor, too far from expectations. The Spirits Within fell victim to this mindset as well. As a stand-alone RPG FFX is one of the best. But as a FF... it's too digressed. There was a method to the FF madness set up in is previous installments that seemed slightly ignored in this game. It almost makes people feel cheated, or even lied to. :/

FF6 has always been one of my top favorites. I don't consider myself a fanatic. I've always been a niche gamer. I used to adore RPGs when the rest of the world hardly knew what those letters stood for. I'm not afraid to say I like FF7 better than 6. But I know, and always knew what 6 had going for it. But then I'm not even sure I'm in a good position to argue the case, because I'm not one of those people that chose 6 because of its convenience and lack of fanboys. I truely did enjoy the game. Before 6, the FFs I did play were just any other RPG to me. When 6 came along I was astounded, to say the least. I can't say much more, except I feel that 6 worked as a bridge between Classical and Modern. It was a keen mix of magic and technology. It's plot even revolved around the concept.

I probably look like one of those people that "simply hate newer FFs" because I didn't like 8. Not because of what was going for it. My main reason was it hit me in a time when I was falling out of video games. And Squall reminded me of everything I hated about myself at the time. I never talked, and when I did, I felt that whatever I had to say wasn't important anyway. I was alone, and I hated him for not taking advantage of everything he had around him. Friends he didn't care about, and a girl he treated like crap for half the game. I'm glad he came to his senses, but I couldn't shake the feeling of resentment he'd already instilled in me. If they had put at least a little more focus on the other characters I might have been able to shrug it off (I hated Tidus too, but at least I could take pleasure in scenes with Rikku). But what I hated about 8 in a gameplay aspect was it's requirement for magic and sidequests to be any good by the end of the game. You HAD to hunt down insane spells on far corners of the planet and junction them to your stats to get a decent rating. And for what? So you could do mildly okay in a melee attack? Honestly I realized the only thing you really need is Deffensive stats. You never need to attack because the damn game's battle system is based on ABUSING GFs to win any significant battle. I spent WAY too much time trying to find the right combination to junction to make my people decent fighters. It had nothing to do with their levels. Bottom line was there was a huge learning curve and a requirement for a lot of patience for very little results. In every other FF before it, you could ignore the extras and be fairly badass (not completely, but not bad either) by the end of the game no matter what. In 8 if you ignore this stuff, you're dust halfway through the game. When I beat the game I was done. There were things I liked (like Rinoa XD) but seriously not worth going back for and put up with that stuff again. I don't care how much more fleshed out him and her were than other FF characters before them.

To me Celes and Locke went through a lot of the same stuff. Their emotions just weren't put on display in front of the camera, but if you use your imagination, Squall and Rinoa aren't that much more fleshed out, and certainly aren't that much different.

I don't know why the newer games can't seem to appeal to me... 8 and onward have conssistently put something in to completely turn me off. I forced myself to stomach all of 9, and that was actually a pretty damn good game. But it was a chore to me. I never even bothered to finish X. I'm at the last battles. My save is like 2 years old. Haven't touched it since. Just not bothered... I just don't know. I've typed enough though. So I'm not going to analyze my feelings on recent FFs and try and find an answer XD Square isn't loosing money on me.

Edit: One more thing ;P I'll see youre "FF1 is crap" when compared to RPGs as a whole. But I never saw it as that. It was a repetitive adventure game where the repetitive parts you either love or hate. Somehow I didn't (and still don't) mind them. Don't know why. But it's no different than playing Tetris or Bomberman for a couple hours to me. But seriously, you at least have to respect FF1. If it hadn't happened, then very likely the FF games you love so much would have never been spawned (:

[DarkLadyNyara]

Then you ask them how far they got and they say "omg I didn't play that crap for more than 5 minutes!"....yeah.

Yeah, that is irritating. Almost all games start slow. FFIX for example. I b!tched so much for the first part of the game, but I stuck with it. And guess what? I loved it.

As for FFI (& II), they might not be as detailed as the later ones, but I think they're still fun.

[Lord Chainsaw]

Excellent post. It's because of threads like this that I prefer to have my FF discussion here, and not the RPG: Squaresoft board on Gamefaqs.

To answer your question as to why some people consider FFI a better game than FFX: My view is that gamers and critics have the perception that the bar is constantly being raised, and games have to be judged accordingly.

We're obviously going to see much higher quality games today than we have seen in the past. Hell, there's a rumor floating around that Ed Boon and Tobias created Mortal Kombat in their garage. Today it takes a team of what, a 100 people to produce a genuinely good game. The way of looking at it is yes, the quality is increasing, but the standard of what constitutes as a good game is also increasing.

I'm going to attempt an example, and it may not work as intended because it's a spur of the moment thought, but think of it this way: If you have 10 bucks pocket change, and you want to have fun on a Friday night with your friends, you'll find a way. Maybe you'll go see a movie. Do that every Friday for a month or so. Say you have 50 bucks to spend every Friday with your friends the next month, and 100 dollars to spend the month after that. At first it may seem better, but after a while, the capacity for enjoyment will level out, and you'll have already set a new standard for enjoyment without yourself even knowing it. Such is the game industry today. We're not having more fun than we did in the 8 bit days, but rather, the necessary qualities a game must possess to become the same amount of fun has increased.

[DJZen]

You have way too much free time on your hands.

Look, EVERY FF game is heavily criticized from people within the FF community. If you look at more mainstream opinions of the series, things tend to be a lot more positive and complimentary. Many people seem to hate FFXII with a furvor unlike any I've ever witnessed, and the game hasn't even come out yet. When I read magazine reviews they tend to say things more like "amazing graphics! detailed character models! ALL NEW battle system! check out these crazy screenshots!"

I'm getting sick of the haterade. Every 5 seconds someone just HAS to chime in with...

FFI SUCKED! It had no plot or characters and the graphics suck!
FFII SUCKED! The characters were dumb and the stat system was weak!
FFIII SUCKS! It's only coming out for DS and I hate Nintendo for making kiddy games!
FFIV SUCKS! The characters are dumb, the plot is stupid and simple and there's too many random encounters!
FFV SUCKS! The characters have no personality and the plot is boring!
FFVI SUCKS! It's way too easy, the graphics are lame and the story completely falls apart when you reach WoR!
FFVII SUCKS! It made Square sell out and the graphics are horrible! The sound and music sound like they were done on a Casio!
FFVIII SUCKS! Junctioning was lame and the characters were given NOOOOO development!
FFIX SUCKS! It has kiddy graphics and the dialogue is terrible!
FFX SUCKS! The voice acting is horrible and it has blitzball!
FFX-2 SUCKS! It was only made to make more money!
FFXI SUCKS! It's online so it's not a real FF! It's just Square's way of trying to take every last penny you own!
FFXII SUCKS! They took out random encounters! Enix made Square sell out!
All these FFVII sequels SUCK! They're just milking FFVII for everything it's worth when all we wanted was a remake!
FFCC SUCKS! It's not a real FF and it has no summons! It's made for GC so it's too kiddy!

I mean, really. Doesn't anyone just play these games because they like them anymore?

[Sunny Rabbiera]

well perhaps I can pull in another opinion.

I like FFI
I like FFX
but I didnt like FF VIII

now if I must give reasoning to not liking FFVIII well it isnt its "futuristic setting"
its the way it was played out in the end.
I think storylinewise FFVIII fell under, and the characters didnt appeal to me [though I loved squalls gunblade]
but meh thats just me.

FFI I guess passes the "smell test" for folks as it was made during a simpler time in video games where you didnt need fancy graphics and FMV's to get by [outside of the fact it was impossible to do at a reasonable cost, sure CGI FMV's were there like in Tron and Star trek II the wrath of khan but they were way too expensive for square and the game pack woulda been bigger then the former twin towers]
and also you must give it up for FFI, it was the first in a revolution of great games.

[Vyk]

That reminds me of the argument that die-hard fans don't even like the games that they're fans for. Probably a "too high of expectations" thing. But really, ya gotta try them, if ya don't like them, you don't like them. If someone asks, why not list the reasons? Personally I've never made a thread stating any particular game "sucked". But when such threads appear, I subjectively point out the reasons I didn't like certain games. I try to do so with care, because I know these games did not "suck". They just did not appeal to me personally. But they appeal to a LOT of people on a personal level, and I just envy that. I don't think they're stupid or anything. I wish I COULD enjoy another FF game, or any game, the way I did in the old days. I agree with Lord Chainsaw completely. I just think my requirements for entertainment got a jump start somewhere along the way somehow, and the industry just can't fill the void for me. Maybe in the future. But I think it stems from me liking simplistic fun in complex games. Now the games are complex all the way around. FF6 was easy to get into. It had a tutorial. But did anyone ever really go for it for any other reason than to get the free items? ;P If you played any other FF you could pick up most of what 6 had to offer no problem. The plot and characters and everything else held the game up. It didn't need complex mechanics like 8. But there I go... I guess my problem is I grew up on games that focused more on fun factor than content. Its something it seems to me all game companies are starting to forget these days... In my very humble opinion anyway.

[Ultima Shadow]

Well... that's some very impressive posts. ThroneofDravaris... you deserves a medal!!!

I agree about almost everything. But I actually like some of the older ones (4,5 and 6) a lot since I actually think they are funnier to replay and I simply just "like" some of the characters more than some of those in the later FFs. Less developed or not... I just like "some" of them more. And I find FFIV and FFV to have a higher replay value than most other FFs... but that may just be me... and I actually think FFVIII have the absolutely highest replay value...

But anyways... I really can't think of something good to say that hasn't already been said... so I'll just say: "Good job, guys!"

[rubah]

While I agree with you on many points, I'd like to know which one *YOU* like the bestxD

and I didn't like ff9 because it was too medieval. Go figure.

[DJZen]

That's interesting considering it wasn't at all Medieval in appearance.

[rubah]

Steiner was more than enough to make it medieval.

actually, he's probably a good bit of why I don'tl ike ff9 too muchxD

[ThroneofDravaris]

While I agree with you on many points, I'd like to know which one *YOU* like the bestxD

and I didn't like ff9 because it was too medieval. Go figure.

Ok, I guess I should come clean:

1. FF9: I think you might have actually guessed this from the post. Everything just seemed so balanced in this game.

2. FFX: The first FF game I played. Great Graphics, game play, full of emotion, great story line, the only thing that annoyed me about this game was Tidus, but only moderately.

3. FF8: As an Anime fan, I was glad to see a game with a deep and complex story line. I also loved the Limit Break system, which allowed you to add a spectacular finish almost at will.

4. FF7: Actually, like a lot of people, I was a bit disappointed by this game; because everyone made out that it was going to be the best. It’s still a great game, Sephiroth probably is the most well thought out villain in the series (not the best IMO, which goes to Kuja…), it’s just not what everyone claimed it to be.

5. FF6: Hey, there’s nothing wrong with this game, it’s probably the best Snes game I’ve ever played, and the graphics are great for it’s time. But to claim it’s the best FF game? The game has an immaturity to it that overshadows many of the games more dark moments (The poisoning of Doma, Celes’ attempted suicide). Kefka, while entertaining, only made the game harder to perceive as a “serious” FF game. Also, the lack of a main character caused the game to loose about direction halfway through.

6. FFX-2: Not as low as you would expect? Well, the story was complete nonsence, the antagonist’s motives didn’t make sense, and to top it off there was far too much sex appeal (why, I’m not sure, as most of the dialogue was aimed at a younger audience…). But in the end, it’s a non-linear RPG with great graphics and an even better battle system. Just ignore the dialogue; it ruins an otherwise fun game.

7. FFV: Hmm, a stupid antagonist, shallow characters, and a boring plot sure make this game long and tedious. But it’s still kind of fun, with the job system.

8. FFIV: I played this game for quite a while, but gave up simply because I realised I wasn’t enjoying it. There are quite a few things I hate about this game, mainly the battle system with 5 characters. I would only play it to say that I finished it, which isn’t really the correct mentality to have.

9. FFI-III: I’ve made several attempts at these games, but in the end I just give up. It’s just too hard to go back and enjoy these games after playing the contemporary games. No plot+ no characterization +no graphics= no fun. Of course, if you played these games when they were first released, then I understand why you would like them. But unless you plan on playing Dawn of Souls, I wouldn’t bother with these games. Sometimes I think people play these games just to say that they completed them, which should never be the motivation to play a game.

I won’t list the Tactics games, but they would be somewhere between FF6 and FF5.