africa

[Cloud No.9]

soon my country will hold th g8 summit. the most powerful men in the world from the richest country will met at a five star hotel on one of the world's greatest golf courses to talk about the starving of millions.

for those who don't know every 3 seconds a person will die of starvation. that's 30,000 a day. that's 4x times more than people live in my town. that's 11 million a year.

africa is in 300 billion dollars of debt and people are dying for this.

the original debt has originally been paid of and more so. nigeria for example had a debt of 5 billion. and has no paid of 16 billion. it still owes 36 billion. nigerian people die daily of hunger while our banks still demand money.

people claim that this money is owed and needs to be paid back. well it's paid back and people are starving.

the cost of reliefing all debt and rebuidling africa is miniscual. but the change it would make is enormous.

this week korean scientists created a stem cell embreyo, it was said this could save countless lives. the cost of this research was millions of dollars.

people are dying in africa not for lack of stem cell research but because the cannot eat or drink.

i know i made this point in another thread but it was off topic and a bit of a ramble so i decided to create this.

please discuss the suffering of millions and the irony of having it's discussion in 5 star accomadation, on a golf course with 100 million pounds worth of security to discuss how debt that kills millions should be worked.

[Skogs]

Tony Blair was right when he said that the state of Africa is a 'scar on the conscience of the Western world'.

[Vyk]

Are you freaking serious? Sorry, I admit I live under a rock, so go ahead and consider me ignorant, especially on issues like this. But they're going to have a conference in a country club setting? Please tell me they're at least going to tour the ravaged lands and get a feel for the people's plight. Otherwise that's just rediculous. I'm sorry I had no idea what your country/continent is really going through and I can't do much to help. But you have my sympathy and condolences

[DMKA]

[Sasquatch]

Yes. Everybody around the world that starving, it's happening because they're expected to pay back money they owe. Money that was given and loaned to them so that they could help themselves, so they wouldn't continually get poorer and poorer. Money that should have been used to build schools, offices, and more-or-less civilized settings instead of supporting militaries to raid neighboring countries.

It's all the rich countries' fault for wanting a small portion of our money back.

[Itsunari 2000]

Corrupt bureaucracy, unfair trade and sheer greed , that's the real root of the problem.

[Cloud No.9]

well it;s not my country or continent. i live in scotland which is a few thousand miles away froma ny starving africa.

sasquatch if you were polite enough to read the post. africa's debt has been paid of. so the argument that "they owe us money so we should starve them is invalid" they debt has been paid 3 times over. but still more is expected. twice as much as the three times more already paid to be precise.

so it's not a small proportion of the money back. it's greedy profit.

find me a credit card which asks for 3500% interest.

the debt is repaid but we still watch millions starve.

i for one will be marching on gleneagles.

[The Captain]

The European Union today agreed to step up their spending toward sending more money to the countries most in need, but this is only a small step.

Other countries, the US, Canada, and Japan specifically, need to step up to the promises that were made in 2000 about the money that would be donated.

Yet, other issues that must be addressed include setting up a stable economic system for the African nations, and allowing their market to grow by reducing tariffs. Otherwise, the deck is stacked far too greatly against them, something no amount of money or donations can really remedy.

What really needs to be done is for all the major businesses of the world to realize that they have so much more to gain by strengthening the economy in Africa. While the short term losses may turn some people off, the long term ability of a more global market will actually strengthen most of these businesses.

Take care all.

[Cloud No.9]

but this really shouldn't be about what we can make out of africa.

it shouldn't be about business, profit, what's owed to who.

it is about the starvation of millions. about stopping the deaths of tens of thousands a people a day.

there shouldn't be a question of what anyone can make out of it. or who loses.

has humanity really became so iron-hearted that when thousands of people die all e think is "it would lose us money if we stopped charging them"

[The Captain]

I agree with you entirely, but sadly, to be realistic, you have to try to fix Africa from a standpoint devoid of moralism to actually get progress. We live in a world of capitalism, where everything DOES revolve around money, and when people are comfortable, they don't feel the need to make changes. Sure, they can have the token sympathy for others, but at the end of the day, the TV goes off and their lives, our lives, are still okay. To stem this tide, short of a miracle of epic proportions to greatly spur a change of opinion, a case has to be made to fix Africa that can benefit those who'd be undertaking this.

Right now, doing something because we owe it to them won't get you anywhere in the political world, or the law making world or the business world because all are ruthless places, where looking out for number one is the only rule. To make any of these groups truly care, you have to sadly make it worth their while to get involved.

There is no reason why Africa has been allowed to suffer for as long as it has. Nothing any sane person can rationalize can justify turning a blind eye to the death toll that Africa has suffered in the last 500 years. Yet somehow, it's never been solved and because money is a major factor in helping these people, business interests will become a primary motivator in pushing anything positive through.

I wish people would just get up and help fix Africa, but things have been horrible for hundreds of years now, even despite some of the most amazing survival and inspiring stories that have come out: Mandela and Desmond Tutu in South Africa to name one, and little real progress has been made from a global perspective to get involved.

Shame is a powerful tool, but for some reason, it just isn't strong enough anymore. To fix Africa, you have to go straight for the wallet. We've become a world where lives are marginalized by dollar signs, where so long as "I can feed my family, then who cares if millions are suffering and dying elsewhere?" With great effort, this mindset can be changed, but right now, mindsets should be secondary to actual progress and saving lives. Maybe, just maybe, if progress does get made, people's minds will change on their own. I have hope in that, but action has to be taken now to have any chance to salvage this situation and to allow for those of us who live right now freely and comfortably to truly not have any degree of shame in our lives.

Take care all.

[Cloud No.9]

so is the conclusion here really that western greed has destroed africa? and in fact rather than being the savious of the world capatlism is destroying africa?

[The Captain]

Imperialism is what destroyed Africa to start off, as it caused people to divide against themselves and made conflicts over land that much harder to navigate because the entire continent was just carved up without any real rhyme or reason.

That being said, the death and destruction in Africa IS the fault of everyone right now because we are well aware of what is happening, yet have been so slow to react that or not react at all. Allowing genocides to happen without really making the effort to stop it, allowing supplies to be taken by the brutal dictators and not given to the people, allowing ourselves to turn a blind eye to the AIDS problem that is still running rampant, these are all the sins of everyone because we all should by all accounts be in there helping, yet our interests lay elsewhere for whatever reason, and no matter how you justify it, we're still allowing millions to die needlessly.

Capitalism, more than anything else, is the ultimate double edged sword. If Africa can be preserved, than Capitalism can help the entire continent get back on its feet, but there needs to be a plan put into place that isn't so cut and dry, but one that will actually allow for the balance to be equal.

Groups such as DATA are working hard to find ways to help Africa, but for the longest time its been the elephant in the room, and soon that elephant will disappear and we'll have only ourselves to blame ultimately because we have the capability to at least try doing something yet don't.

If I had to pin the blame on anything, I'd put it on apathy, moreso than anything else.

Take care all.

[Cloud No.9]

isn't greed in these companies and banks though the driving force for their apathy? the debt is at best an unnessecary evil. it's not longer about debt or what is owed. it is pure greed and profit. surely this is a driving force for their apathy?

[The Captain]

That might be part of the equation, but apathy also comes from a degree of comfort in that we become comfortable with accepting the world as it is and either decide that we can't change things or that we don't want to for whatever reason.

I fear that another potential reason is the sheer amount of work it would take, which many people, especially those in power, never seem willing to undertake, which on some levels might be understandable, since immediate results are not a given. Yet, as citizens of the world, I think in the end, doing something, getting our hands dirty even if we don't change things right away is so much better than doing nothing or just assuming that nothing can be done.

Take care all.

[Shoeberto]

There have been some things going on recently that have opened my eyes to how much the mainstream media blinds us of the real atrocities of the world, and this is just another example of it.

Sure, they can have the token sympathy for others, but at the end of the day, the TV goes off and their lives, our lives, are still okay.

This sums it up the best. I don't see how anyone can feel like a good human being with stuff like this going on. The blood is on all of our hands.