A proposal for the abortion debate

[DarkLadyNyara]

Now, I realize that abortion is a hot issue,(to put it mildly), but I think that there is room for some common ground. Let's face it- few people like abortion, but some feel it is justified, and some don't. So maybe if we worked together, we could actually acomplish things. For instance- make effective birth control readily available, make sure people have accurate information to make educated decisions, give support to struggling parents, ect. The way I see it, it's win-win. Women have control of their lives, and the number of abortions go down. Thoughts?

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Can we add a clause in there that grants more paternal rights in the matter?

[gokufusionss1]

But you see still from my view, just because there are less abortions it doesn't make it more pallateable. People are still dying at the hands of doctors and in the name of choice.

On a side note some medical bigwigs in Britain suggested that we shouldn't bother trying to keep alive premautre babies, because around 30% of them don't survive and 40% develop dissabilities(apparently having a squint means life isn't worth living).

[Captain Maxx Power]

Abortions for some, miniture flags for others.

[Destai]

But you see still from my view, just because there are less abortions it doesn't make it more pallateable. People are still dying at the hands of doctors and in the name of choice.

On a side note some medical bigwigs in Britain suggested that we shouldn't bother trying to keep alive premautre babies, because around 30% of them don't survive and 40% develop dissabilities(apparently having a squint means life isn't worth living).

They cant die if theyre not alive in the first place and most people getting an abortion get one as soon as possible before it can start seriously developing.

[Gnostic Yevon]

I think it's a good idea. I have no idea of what happens in Britain, but in the US, adoption isn't promoted as much as abortion. So when a teen gets pregnant, she'll either keep the kid or abort him. If she keeps him, they're in for a life of poverty and possible abuse if she marries the dad and he's an ass. If she aborts, she'll be fine, but the kid obviously dies. Adoption would give both a decent life because the mom doesn't have to drop out to care for the baby, the baby isn't being raised by a single mother working 2 jobs to pay rent on a rat-infested apartment, and as a bonus two strangers who for whatever reason cannot have a baby get a baby to love. There aren't any losers here.

So promoting adoptions and fixing whatever it is that seems to be making adoption less of an option would probably go a long way to reducing abortions (and probably spending however many tens of thousands of dollars on fertillity treatments or overseas adoption). Of course preventing pregnancy should be a part of the plan too, but you need a backup.

[DocFrance]

I have a perfect solution to the problem. Make abortion 100% legal, but in order for an abortion to be performed, both the would-be mother and father will be permanently sterilized. Then they don't have to worry about abortions ever again.

[Shadow Nexus]

I'm divided. Both options seem bad. On one side, you got pro-abortion. The problems are obvious, let's see, first, we are killing a foetus. I wouldn't consider it "human", but I consider it something that will be human. Can I even consider it alive? I guess it depends on the stage of pregnacy, although I really don't know much about that. However, it does look kind of freaky to kill an unborn child, the idea of abortion was always gross to me. Also...why is the mother pregnant? In most developed countries, sexual education is given in schools, the couple should take into account the risks of having sex without anti-conceptives. If now the couple is facing this problem, should they have the abortion option or must we leave them there to face the consequences of their own responsabilities, meaning a child?

On the other side, why should the State decide the destiny of the pregnant woman? Shouldn't she be free to choose? Both abortion and having the baby are tough decisions, but shouldn't we give her the option? Plus, if it's not legal, illegal abortion clinics will obviously appear, and well, we all know those aren't exactly healthy. Shouldn't the couple be able to decide what they do, instead of giving their lifes to a child they never wished? What if the parents aren't even prepared to take care of the child but won't give him into adoption? How many years will pass until somebody notices?

Of course, in the cases where the life of the mother is at risk, or it is a pregnacy fruit of a rape, etc, then I believe it should be legal. In the other cases? I am not sure, I'm slightly more towards abortion being legal, but I am unsure.

[Cloud No.9]

doc france's argument = make one mistake - get punished for life.

shadow nexus is right abortion is not something you can stop. even before it was done medically it was done herbelly (pennyroyal tea). and nowadays if it was made illegal all that would happen is either it would be done like that or it would be done as some people have it done, by putting a bicycle spoke in there and giving it a quick stir around.

all that would happen is that illegally or self aborted fetuses would be found in someone's trash.

it's not a new concept and so is not really preventable. there are just ways to make it better for everyone. that is not by not having it done by some half wit with a bicyle part. instead having it done by a proffessional.

here contraceptives are available for free. to everyone and anyone. and abortion rates have not went down. same with increase in education. in fact against all this teenage pregnancy and std's have actually went up.

more education and free contraception is not the answer. there is something at the heart of the problem and that needs to be tackled first.

[udsuna]

there is something at the heart of the problem and that needs to be tackled first.

Yeah, it's called "personal responsibility". Without consequences, there's no reason to be cautious. Back in the day, unplanned pregnancies meant that someone was going to be beaten to death, hanged, or forced into a marriage. Not doing it in the first place was a good choice. Nowadays, people just aren't afraid of consequences when all you have to do is walk into a building, and walk out a couple hours later with the freedom to go out and do it all again.

And, as parents have lost the idea of responsibility for their children, they never bother to teach their kids about such responsibility themselves. Long story short: the problem is everyone. Of course, no one wants to hear THAT answer, because it forces them to take responsibility, and who wants to do that anymore?

[lordblazer]

there is something at the heart of the problem and that needs to be tackled first.

Yeah, it's called "personal responsibility". Without consequences, there's no reason to be cautious. Back in the day, unplanned pregnancies meant that someone was going to be beaten to death, hanged, or forced into a marriage. Not doing it in the first place was a good choice. Nowadays, people just aren't afraid of consequences when all you have to do is walk into a building, and walk out a couple hours later with the freedom to go out and do it all again.

And, as parents have lost the idea of responsibility for their children, they never bother to teach their kids about such responsibility themselves. Long story short: the problem is everyone. Of course, no one wants to hear THAT answer, because it forces them to take responsibility, and who wants to do that anymore?

Yeah we understand that udsuna but if i was to be born into a world with unresponsible parents who dont care much for me.Then I would've rather died before i was even born.The thing is abortion should be 100% legal...This process strings out hte responsible to the irreponsible...MY sister was an accident but she wasn't aborted and they had the option to do so.Even if abortion is legal dude people who had an unplanned pregnancy.There will be those who take the easy way out and have an abortion and those who will suck it up like a soldier and have the baby and care for it until the person is 18.. then kick them out and call them a loser and tell them to get a job.

[Cloud No.9]

there's a few more problems then the baby boomer generation as parents. there's the degradation of morals in society. the amount of sex on tv, on billboards, in music. kids are bombarded with that every day. and we expect it not to have any influence on kids today?

there's a lack of morals in society today, a lack of repect, responsibilty.

this though was put in place by their parents (the baby boomers). and thus we are left with generation x. which is why society sucks right now because the baby boomers are in charge and went around being so liberal and pc about every little thing. maybe if we stopped showing kids sex as soon as they can learn to count they wouldn't be popping out sprogs at 13.

[Hawkeye]

If everyone just wore a condomn and actually thought about what they were doing before they did it, there would be no need for abortions. If everyone respected life more than tossing it aside...

But then again, we live in the land of the almighty dollar, and that will ALWAYS decide what is moral and what is not

[DarkLadyNyara]

But you see still from my view, just because there are less abortions it doesn't make it more pallateable. People are still dying at the hands of doctors and in the name of choice.

All-or-Nothing, then? Sounds a bit, oh, I don't know, hypocritical to me.

In most developed countries, sexual education is given in schools, the couple should take into account the risks of having sex without anti-conceptives.

Sexual education in America (most of it, at least)... "Don't have sex". I'm not kidding.

[Rusty]

The only time I see abortion as 'ok' is if that child was concieved due to rape and the victim was really to young to give birth and be a mother. If I was raped and got pregnant, true I would consider abortion, does that make a bad person? The option would run through my head. I would hate to look at my attackers face each time I looked at my child and I put myself in my childs shoes, would I like to be a child of rape? How could I tell my child that his/her father was my rapist?

But then again, I would most likely either raise the child or give it up for adoption.

Just think if you saw an 11 year old pregnant due to rape? Would you deny that child the chance to be a child herself due to some disgusting person who got her pregnant?

I'm not trying to justify abortion as 'ok'. I wish it was never dicovered or put into the mainstream market. I'm just putting out some argument for abortion. It doesn't mean I agree with it.