Ultimecia/Rinoa Similarities

[Mo-Nercy]

A lot of people work Griever into to R=U theory. The fact that Squall gives Rinoa his Griever ring and that Ultimecia uses the Griever as a GF later convinces many that Rinoa/Ultimecia summoned Griever from the ring much like Doomtrain is summoned out of a ring.

But I gave up this argument a long time ago. I don't even know what I side I was on.

[Yuffie514]

please, don't "bewitch" Rinoa .

[Slade]

A lot of people work Griever into to R=U theory. The fact that Squall gives Rinoa his Griever ring and that Ultimecia uses the Griever as a GF later convinces many that Rinoa/Ultimecia summoned Griever from the ring much like Doomtrain is summoned out of a ring.

But I gave up this argument a long time ago. I don't even know what I side I was on.

This may sound dumb......ok it does sound dumb but what if Squall actually IS Griever. He said something about if Rinoa ever turned bad he'd become her knight......perhaps she changed him when he became her knight. Its possible, i mean Darth Vader was Lukes father

[DJZen]

What if Ultimecia was actually Selphie? I mean think about it. They have the same facial structure. Isn't Selphie really fond of the trains? What would happen in a world where there are no more trains? Would she not turn evil and seek to destroy the organization that ruined her beloved train system? Or what about the similarity in their costumes? I think we're overlooking some MAJOR similarities, people! R=S! It CAN'T be disputed!

[mcsspitfire]

lmao

[Mitch]

I think that it probarbly is true, being as it is a game with a good story and a lot of sub plot, so..... yeah. It makes the story cooler.

[rubah]

I think someone proved very definitely that Ultimecia=Cid.

or maybe it was cid=selphie. something like that.

[nik0tine]

I think someone proved very definitely that Ultimecia=Cid.

or maybe it was cid=selphie. something like that.

That must have been future esthar.

[Sir Bahamut]

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/ file/final_fantasy_viii_time_ultimecia.txt

Piecing together those two will hopefully have provided a direct link to mine and Squall of SeeDs FAQ on R=U and such things on Gamefaqs.
It's a result of 2+ years of discussion(including on this forum), and although it isn't 100% complete, I can safely say it contains the most plausible R=U theory as well as all the logical arguments to and for. I say that not because I think I've done such a great job, but because of the great job by all the people I've discussed this with.

But to sum up my FAQ, the R=U theory simply isn't plausible. Simply the fact that it isn't mentioned or even hinted to in the Ultimania Guide for FF8 should be enough to tell us this, but for more reasons, check out that FAQ.

PS: If that link refuses to send you to an FAQ, go to:

www.gamefaqs.com

Search for "Final Fantasy VIII" --> Go to FAQs/Guides --> Find my "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ" (NOT the "Plot Analysis", which is a load of crap).

[Destai]

I think Square may have meant to use this story of R=U but decided against it in the end but still left all the points hidden in the game. Ultimecias castle being located right were Rinoa and Squall promised to meet, Its one of few explanations as to why Ultimecia would actually want to compress time, They both have angel wings and the colour change from white to dark would easily mean the change of mind from good to evil, Theres the fact that she wields Griever which was a present Squall gave to her, and also I think they have the same hair colour. If you're really interested look for a bunch of threads in this forum that went over it in much greater detail with more evidence.

[Doomie]

Wow Sir Bahamut, I spent a good half hour reading that faq. I must say it is very well done and stated many valid points, some of which I never even heard of. I especially liked the one about the Greek couple. (I closed the window so their names escape me) It was rather interesting. I also admire how you in no way connected to Griever, which is everyone else's huge argument. You simply said that the games says Ultimecia created Griever from Squall's idea of him and that's all. Once again, very well done.

I still however believe that R=/=U. Although after reading that I know where you people are coming from.

[Holy_Aeris]

I just found some pics, to see if we can see the similarilties.....

Ultimecia-

Rinoa-

Rinomecia???-

[Armisael]

Search for "Final Fantasy VIII" --> Go to FAQs/Guides --> Find my "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ" (NOT the "Plot Analysis", which is a load of crap).

Well done!You really have made a great work there!

[Squall of SeeD]

The game takes some trouble to tell us that Sorceresses have a tendency to become corrupted by their power and become evil. So Rinoa 'becoming evil' isn't such a stress to believe.

So long as she has Squall it is. That's what a Witch's Knight is there for: To be their stability and remind them of that part of them that is a normal human being.

Rinoa, in a romantic conversation with Squall says she wishes that 'time would stop this moment'. In a game where the villain wants time compression, I think the writers have a reason for that.

Time Compression wasn't used to stop that moment on the Ragnarok in time. It was used to compress all time into a single moment, or "existance at once." This was so that the Witch Embodiment in all of its incarnations would be forced into one instance. With SeeD killing the other bearers of the Embodiment as they passed through Time Compression, that released their incarnation of the Embodiment, and the power was then there for Ultimecia to claim.

The ending movie has repeated flashes between Rinoa and Ultimecia, ending with Squall's eye opening widely with a tear. To me, that doesn't seme like a desperate 'I give up' expression but that of someone who realizes a 'Very Bad Thing'

You skipped the reason that Squall's tear was there: It was him seeing the faceplate on the suit Rinoa was wearing in space shatter. He was seeing her die. That's why he shed that tear.

Rinoa asks Squall to promise that if she ever goes evil, he will kill her. Nice irony, as Squall DOES do that (or well...at least assists)

Possibly. He's not necessarily even present in the battle any longer at that point. He can be absorbed into time the same as the others when they fall.

A lot of people work Griever into to R=U theory. The fact that Squall gives Rinoa his Griever ring and that Ultimecia uses the Griever as a GF later convinces many that Rinoa/Ultimecia summoned Griever from the ring much like Doomtrain is summoned out of a ring.

This may sound dumb......ok it does sound dumb but what if Squall actually IS Griever. He said something about if Rinoa ever turned bad he'd become her knight......perhaps she changed him when he became her knight. Its possible, i mean Darth Vader was Lukes father

Griever is an idea in Squall's mind. Use Scan on Griever and you'll see that it says "In Squall's mind, the strongest GF." He was an idea that Ultimecia gave form to, drawing it from the strongest feelings of those she was fighting.

I just found some pics, to see if we can see the similarilties.....

Ultimecia- http://img64.echo.cx/img64/4972/ultimecia6ml.jpg

Rinoa- http://img64.echo.cx/img64/3482/rinoa3nh.jpg

Rinomecia???- http://img64.echo.cx/img64/7569/rinimecia9vc.gif

Of course there are similarities, but if you do the same thing with Rinoa and Selphie, Edea, or Ellone, you'll find that the similarities are there, as well. The same facial structure was used for several of the females in the game.

I think Square may have meant to use this story of R=U but decided against it in the end but still left all the points hidden in the game. Ultimecias castle being located right were Rinoa and Squall promised to meet...

The game shows us why her castle was there, though: To slaughter the SeeDs. Squall and the others find their dead bodies strewn across the beach behind Edea's Orphanage. Ultimecia likely decided to wipe out her foes before casting Time Compression to settle a grudge.

Its one of few explanations as to why Ultimecia would actually want to compress time.

We're already given an explanation in-game, though, when we use Scan on Ultimecia:

"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses."

Theres the fact that she wields Griever which was a present Squall gave to her, and also I think they have the same hair colour.

As mentioned before, Griever was an idea that Ultimecia gave form to. As for Rinoa and Ultimecia having the same hair colour... no, they don't. Ultimecia's hair is white. Rinoa's is black. For that matter, though, even had they the same hair colour, with Adel, Ultimecia, Edea, and the 11 Witches encountered in Time Compression, we see physical deformities as it is.


Anyway, though, the FAQ Sir Bahamut linked to is the best place to go on the Internet to examine this matter. He and I have considered pretty much everything conceivable in our years of investigation as far as this matter goes.

[Destai]

I think Square may have meant to use this story of R=U but decided against it in the end but still left all the points hidden in the game. Ultimecias castle being located right were Rinoa and Squall promised to meet...

The game shows us why her castle was there, though: To slaughter the SeeDs. Squall and the others find their dead bodies strewn across the beach behind Edea's Orphanage. Ultimecia likely decided to wipe out her foes before casting Time Compression to settle a grudge.

Sorry but I dont get what you mean by that, I dont remember the game showing any explanation on why the castle was there.

Its one of few explanations as to why Ultimecia would actually want to compress time.

We're already given an explanation in-game, though, when we use Scan on Ultimecia:

"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses."

I didnt realize that but thinking about it, I think that could back up R=U theory. I think trying to become all powerful and changing the world for unknown reasons is a poor excuse for the main villains motives.

Theres the fact that she wields Griever which was a present Squall gave to her, and also I think they have the same hair colour.

As mentioned before, Griever was an idea that Ultimecia gave form to. As for Rinoa and Ultimecia having the same hair colour... no, they don't. Ultimecia's hair is white. Rinoa's is black. For that matter, though, even had they the same hair colour, with Adel, Ultimecia, Edea, and the 11 Witches encountered in Time Compression, we see physical deformities as it is.

Actually now that I think about it, Im sure the japanese version said she frew Griever from Squalls mind as something Squall feared. Something along those lines. And I checked the picture I had in mind when I said they had the same hair colour. I was sure her hair was black and greay but its just grey.