ff12 the end? or a new(arguably horrible) beginning?

[Sarkis]

Im not here to bash and hate on ff12 but what i would like to do is collect your thoughts and opinions on the game. personaly i absolutly hate it as it's nothing like final fantasy. Now i wont completly condem the game untill i have played it thats only fare but I have noticed a steep decline in the Quality of the games as well as the fact that each game gets farther and farther away from the old standerds we so love. Im all for inavation but there leteraly treating final fantasy like a lab rat. FF11 while a cool MMORPG that i Do play often is technicly NOT a final fantasy game and I fear ff12 will be even farther from ff. This realy scares me FF is my favorite RPG game seres. I dont want it to die but it's slowly becomeing something completly deferent. The elemination of the random battles has me extremly worryed. Allso the fact that it's set in ivalice and seems to have a bases in ff tactics advanced worrys me. FFTA was ok but it cant touch the origenal.
On top of that i never like Vagrint story and the man behind that game is leading develoupment of ff12 so i have yet more to worry about. Anyway enof about ME lets here what you guys have to say about. Voice your hopes and your fears I want to know what you think but please no flame wars lol.

[TheAbominatrix]

Ivalice is just the world it's set in, it doesnt matter that it's been the setting of TA. (edit: by which I mean, it isnt a continuation of TA by any means. Aside from the names and a few races, it doesnt seem to have anything to do with the Ivalice we've seen in previous games.)

I'm not concerned with it, as I havent played it yet. I wont get my panties in a bunch, as it isnt gonna do any good. I dont see how the quality can look bad... what quality? The graphics look awesome, and really, the only things we can judge now are graphics and character design.

FF has come so far from what it originally was. VII is worlds different from I. It's always evolving, always changing, and someone is always gonna be pissed off about the changes. That's just how it is, really. I'm glad they evolve, instead of making a different story with the same mechanics over and over again, so I'm eager to play XII to see if I like it or not. And if I don't, I don't care much. Life will go on, there's lots of other amazing RPGs out there that dont have the words 'Final Fantasy' in the titles.

[Sarkis]

True But FF games have been the poster child for RPGs for a long time. Now nobody can argue the graphics are bad allthough I could take up a beef about the charicter designs but thats another story. Based On there recent games(ff10 ff10-2 and ff11) I can safly say im not fond of the direction there takeing the games. Thankfully as far as i can tell the EXP systum is back and thats good. Like i said in my above post inovation and new ideas are a good thing but meny gamers play final fantasy for more then just that, meny of us enjoy seeing things we are fermilure with things that are a part of the games and there style. For example Cid and meny of the Summons. When you change things about a games style and not just the game machanics your going to be treding on thin ice with some of the more hardcore fans. Forexample I dont think this game has the clasic overworld map that all the ff games up to 10 had. That anoyed me in 10 but it's not world shatering. However it looks like it's no longer an full RPG and is closer to a MMORPG in the way it plays. You have no control over your party members there contoled by an AI and the battles are in real time. I think this is a very bad mistake since most fans of Final fantasy love RPG's they like turn based combat. Elminating that is IMO takeing away a large part of the games apeal and it's not even out yet. of corse everything remains to be seen untill we actuly play it and thats the point behind this topic. I want the thoughts from the board members about these changes.

[TheAbominatrix]

Okay, it's really hard to address your points as it's just in one big chunk, but I'll do my best.

True But FF games have been the poster child for RPGs for a long time.

In America, sure. But in Japan, this isnt neccesarily true. There are so many good RPGs out there, and good RPG series as well.

Based On there recent games(ff10 ff10-2 and ff11) I can safly say im not fond of the direction there takeing the games.

I wasnt fond of the direction they started taking the games with VII. I was thoroughly annoyed by VIII and IX, but I love X. The series isnt going to be consistantly good in the eyes of everyone. X is a valid complaint, but the major changes are not neccesarily a mainstay. We saw a change of system in VIII with the junction, but we've never seen it again. The overworld map is gone, which isnt at all a problem on the next-gen consoles we'll see soon, when worlds can be built larger. The lack of a world map was very refreshing to me, as it made the games more believable. The only problem was the linearity.

X-2 has to do with the series only that it's a sequel to X. It's like saying that Tactics took the series in a completly different direction, when it obviously didnt. It had no bearing on other games, save for Tactics Advance.

XI, though a numerical successor, is a complete departure in almost every way. That does not make it a mainstay.

Thankfully as far as i can tell the EXP systum is back and thats good. Like i said in my above post inovation and new ideas are a good thing but meny gamers play final fantasy for more then just that, meny of us enjoy seeing things we are fermilure with things that are a part of the games and there style. For example Cid and meny of the Summons. When you change things about a games style and not just the game machanics your going to be treding on thin ice with some of the more hardcore fans.

And how is this different? We don't know we wont be seeing Cid or the summons. How is the style different? You've yet to explain that to me. The battle system is different, but so was FFT's. So was the Junction system. So was the Materia system. Those are all changes, but are they bad? What I'm saying with this is, we're always seeing change... and usually it's interesting and good. So more change could mean more interesting and good things.

I also have a problem with touting the 'hardcore fans' reference. If people were that 'hardcore' with their love of FF, they would follow it without complaint.

ou have no control over your party members there contoled by an AI and the battles are in real time. I think this is a very bad mistake since most fans of Final fantasy love RPG's they like turn based combat.

Actually you do have control over your party members. The AI is in place, but you can switch back and forth between them and control them directly.

I dont see how a combat system can break a game, especially when I havent tried it yet. But if it's that damaging to ya, well that's your deal.

[Sarkis]

As far as the harcore Fans thing goes i said "some" not all.

Your are Correct in japan there are meny meny RPG's that are very good however Im not talking about Japan im only adressing Amarica and Europe and other areas were Final Fantasy has a heavy Influence on the way poeple veiw RPG's.

My complant about not haveing Control over your party is a valid one. you can swich and control then one at a time in live combat but you cannot control them all at once so you dont have total party control. you are only in control of one person at a time.

I am going to Continue to miss the overworld map, much like i am going to miss more of the traditional RPG elements that are fadeing from final fantasy games the turn based combat I hope will return in later games.

Your right we have no garentee we wont see Cid and the summons as well as Chocobos mOg's ect. I was only useing Cid and the Sumons as an example. What they have removed from the game is it's turnbased game play it's overworld map and it's total party control. Allso I know it realy doesent matter to the actual game play but the charicter designs kinda bug me.....alot. the Femal lead is Ok but the male lead i dont even want to get started on. Im not saying every Final Fantasy Hero need to have spiky hair and carry around a masively oversized weapon But i do wish they would not base the haricter design off of a real live pop star. I meen How meny of you guys want to see Britny Spears Summon Bahamut?

Over All Im worryed about the story and gameplay But that cannot be taken into acount at this time since the game is in limbo and we dont even have a estamated release date yet.

Like i said im not trying to bash ff12 but i am voiceing my conserns for it. maybe it will be great and heck if they continue going in this direction or in th direction they whent with ff10 then im sure meny gamers will be happy. I only wish they would leave more of the basic old school elements in tact. Thats not to saw they shouldent try new things but there are plunty of old things i have grown to love and I dont to see the game without. Like the overworld map and turn based combat I keep talking about. Im not trying to say OMG nobody buy ff12 it's going to suck I just wanted to see how other board members felt about what he know so far. The best way to start was to voice my own thoughts. I must admit however that Im rather pleased by this debate were haveing as it's civil and brings to light meny points on both sides.

[TheAbominatrix]

I know, I just mean that people use the term 'hardcore fan' far too often. Like "I was a hardcore fan but this game sucked so now I hate the series", which makes me say... well, you must not have been a very big fan to begin with.

And I actually think it would be interesting to see FF go down... just to see what we start getting in America. Because of this lull between XI and XII, a lot of good RPGs have had a chance to shine, which may have been outclassed simply because of the name FF being released nearby it. Now, of course I dont want FF to go, but America and Europe do get a lot of amazing games, and it's time we started taking advantage of it instead of worrying so much about FF.

The lack of mainstays isnt as big a deal to me, I guess that's all it boils down to. The only thing I'm concerned with is the characters and the story, and if those are done well I'll be happy. Mechanics dont matter much to me as long as they arent horrendously done (like in Parasite Eve 2, I couldnt even play that game because of the controls).

I really think its neccesary to try these things and really go out on limbs, given how oversatured the RPG market is becoming. Back in the days of NES and SNES, and heck even PS1, they didnt need to experiment as much because there wasnt as much fierce competition. But we're seeing so many interesting and innovative games on the market now that if FF doesnt start experimenting and expanding, they may get buried by more interesting series (like the Nippon Ichi games, and Mistwalker).

We'll see. Regardless, even if it all goes down, we'll always have our old games to play.

[Sarkis]

I know, I just mean that people use the term 'hardcore fan' far too often. Like "I was a hardcore fan but this game sucked so now I hate the series", which makes me say... well, you must not have been a very big fan to begin with.

And I actually think it would be interesting to see FF go down... just to see what we start getting in America. Because of this lull between XI and XII, a lot of good RPGs have had a chance to shine, which may have been outclassed simply because of the name FF being released nearby it. Now, of course I dont want FF to go, but America and Europe do get a lot of amazing games, and it's time we started taking advantage of it instead of worrying so much about FF.

The lack of mainstays isnt as big a deal to me, I guess that's all it boils down to. The only thing I'm concerned with is the characters and the story, and if those are done well I'll be happy. Mechanics dont matter much to me as long as they arent horrendously done (like in Parasite Eve 2, I couldnt even play that game because of the controls).

I really think its neccesary to try these things and really go out on limbs, given how oversatured the RPG market is becoming. Back in the days of NES and SNES, and heck even PS1, they didnt need to experiment as much because there wasnt as much fierce competition. But we're seeing so many interesting and innovative games on the market now that if FF doesnt start experimenting and expanding, they may get buried by more interesting series (like the Nippon Ichi games, and Mistwalker).

We'll see. Regardless, even if it all goes down, we'll always have our old games to play.

I agree Completly and while I would perfer to see traditional ff elements that I have fallen in love with your right there not absolutly vital but the game does feel like it's something other then ff without them. FFx wasent a bad game it wasent the best but meny fans can say the same about ff7 and even ff6 so that doent realy bother me. I can agree It might be interesting to see FF fall even though it worrys me. I am Sick of things selling simply becouse Square-enix slaps the name Final Fantasy on it, just look at spirits withen. Granted that movie bombed but alot of fans when to see it the opening day only to be disapointed. There are meny games we have never had the joy of playing here in the US and that could be in part due to Final Fantasy's Near Manopoly on the amarican RPG markit. Still If it ever did fall I would miss it. then again your right we do have our old games to play and if the games are truly geting worse and worse then maybe it's better to go out in a blaze of glory then to slowly wither away.

Heck were only just now geting to play Fire emblem and soon will get one of the Atlear Iris games. a Populer RPG in japan for years.

[Wuggly Blight]

My biggest fear is it will be FF10/-2 in drag. I would hate for it to be just the 10 series dressed up as something else. yeah, invoation good for it but there is a limit when you remove everything that makes it a final fantasy.

[Ouch!]

I'm not worried about it at all. So far the only thing I'm sort of concerned about is the form of job system it's using. I'm not particularly keen on characters being able to do everything from being a massive damage dealer and have the most magnificent casting abilities. I've always been a fan of the job system employed in FFT, and FFXI uses a very similar system to that. Seeing as the game looks as though it'll play like an MMORPG, it could employ this situation very well and I'd be very happy with it.

My only real dislike with Final Fantasy games so far is just that. The battle systems in FFVII and FFVIII bothered the heck out of me because you could create godly characters that were mere carbon copies of each other save for their limit breaks. Each character had little to no individual functionality in a party. So far it doesn't look like FFXII will turn to that same sort of system.

I'm liking everything else I've seen of FFXII--though I'll admit I stopped following it a while ago, which doesn't seem to matter because it doesn't sound like there's been any new information--and overall, it just looks like it's going to be a good game.

If anything, I'm happy FFXII is departing from many of the traditional Final Fantasy elements. As far as I'm concerned it still has many of the trademarks of the Final Fantasy genre: moogles, chocobos, airships, etc. It's never been the battle system or other mechanics that have made the Final Fantasy titles what they are, it's been the in-depth and engaging plots and interesting characters. It's too early to judge much of that except to say that I believe the characters look pretty interesting. We'll just have to see about the plot.

I'm still hoping for another playable moogle. <3

[NotQuiteNecessary]

Graphics in FMV look excellent(as we've come to expect), but Ashe looks and (supposedly) acts like Yuna Lite. Vaan seems like a break from the Tidusy hell that was FFX, and Panelo, Fran, and Baltheir seem interesting. I'm also psyched about the battle system, which looks like it could kick ass if the AI is good. Square isn't known for its amazing AI work, however.

Graphics OUTSIDE of FMV however seem extremely jaggy, and the plotline seems a bit too much like FFT's for comfort. Oh well, here's hoping.

[Butz]

I saw the trailer, and I didn't like it.. I dunno but I feel FF is goind down the drain

[Nakor TheBlue Rider]

Well I Liked the other 2 Ivalice games.

I'm Still obsessed with FFT
and I liked FFTA even though i only got 1/4 of the way into it.

Also I'm a Fan of FFXI

People from the FFT and FFXI worlds are working on FFXII so im pritty sure ill love it. The Trailers looked great, i cant wait.

[Craig]

My only real dislike with Final Fantasy games so far is just that. The battle systems in FFVII and FFVIII bothered the heck out of me because you could create godly characters that were mere carbon copies of each other save for their limit breaks. Each character had little to no individual functionality in a party. So far it doesn't look like FFXII will turn to that same sort of system.

If you don't want your characters to be the same, don't make them the same.

As for the comments on the battle system, I don't see the big deal, it's not as if the turn based battle system is some big amazing innovation that everybody loves, its just the normal way of fighting in most RPGs, I'm welcoming the change.

As for Ivalice, I'm glad they are using it, the aspects of Ivalice, such as the different races and the Judges have alot of potential in my eyes, and I'm glad I'll get to see them in full 3D.

[XxSephirothxX]

I think it looks extremely promising. Just based on the medieval-esque fantasy setting, the world, and so on I'm hoping it'll be much better than FFX. It will still be fun, even if it's not as great as some of the past installments.

[Ixion]

Im just curious why everyone keeps saying how they hate the direction of FFX and they hope FF12 is much better. Every site gave it atleast a 9.5 and most of the time a 10 and I think the game is amazing. How is it so different than the other Final Fantasies (I have played 7,8 and 10). I can't find any flaws in it so I'm curiuos to ask you guys why you say it's "not Final Fantasy like" and how it's so bad?