begg matters hugely. he is one of the few though not the only to talk openly about his time in cuba. are we really to believe that he is an oddity? a one off? or one of many including others who were released without charge? remember 99% percent of all men ever held in camp x-ray are still in camp x-ray.

gnostic yevon you are totally missing the point. you are not giving them basic human rights. those are being breched. that is why it is a crime against humanity. that is why every soldier in charge of the place should be in the hague right now and that is why we are having this discussion.

and they are not members. they are suspected members. there is a huge difference. they are not tried and as such are not guilty. they are not treated within international law. to wrap them up as all guilty before they have even been charged with any crime is stupid.

icky things? the use of the strappado is icky? having a man crap himself is icky? no it is not icky. it is torture. it is one the most horrible crimes and to actively partake in it should be deemed a war crime and tried in the same way as nazi leaders were at nuremburg, molisevic is and sadamme will be. and in the case of a killing can be punished by the death penalty. and don't forget america's charming habit of sending it's prisoners to countries which wil perform even "ickier" things.

the question should in fact be whether i want a legally innocent (or even guilty because i wouldn't torture any man) to be tortured. the answer in short is no. do i want lebenzrhaum for the sake of a few jews and slavs? that is a similar question.

is america so paranoid after 9-11 that it is willing to lower itself to torture? and claim it is just, moral and right? is that what america has became over the last 4 years? a country where people are tortured and the population doesn't care?

to be under the constitution or geneva is irrelavant. they are governed by human rights treaties. it would still render torture illegal. and the men who perform it war criminals.

actually the public saw alot of reconasiance photo when powell graced the UN with his presence and showed alot of them to us. apparently those satellites which were told could read the regiment of a soviet soldiers cap badge can't explain why all those chemical weapons factories didn't have any sign of chemical weapons. or track the mobile labs. or see those missles anymore. funny that...........

the red cross and crescent actually condemned the treatment of prisoners in quantanamo. they are not given basic human rights as torture is illegal by all conventions. if you don't belive that men are tortured then ask the man who came back to britain after 3 years with a cracked skull, epilpepsy and black outs. he could have just hit himself over the head with the tray he gets 3 sqaure meals on but i some what doubt it...

also the cia has a handy pamphlet on hot to torture people. it had a second one issued after 9-11 which involved water torture, depravation of oxygen, light sealing, palestinian hanging etc. it was repealed but was issued and probably followed until it's repel.

if america has any right to invade a country on humanitarian grounds first it must prove it is capable of humanity.