Quote Originally Posted by Cloud No.9
begg matters hugely. he is one of the few though not the only to talk openly about his time in cuba. are we really to believe that he is an oddity? a one off? or one of many including others who were released without charge? remember 99% percent of all men ever held in camp x-ray are still in camp x-ray.
Ok then why has no other person been brought forwrd? If he's not a "one off", then where are the others? Why is it every time we have this argument, all you have is Begg?

icky things? the use of the strappado is icky? having a man crap himself is icky? no it is not icky. it is torture. it is one the most horrible crimes and to actively partake in it should be deemed a war crime and tried in the same way as nazi leaders were at nuremburg, molisevic is and sadamme will be. and in the case of a killing can be punished by the death penalty. and don't forget america's charming habit of sending it's prisoners to countries which wil perform even "ickier" things.
The Nazis and Milosovic were running death camps and they were filled with civillians who had never even held a gun. Honestly if you can't tell the difference between Milosevic rounding up people for the crime of being Bosnian, and Bush allowing the army to intern people who are captured on the battlefields shooting at them, then there is no point in trying to explain it to you. If you can't tell the difference between death camps and prisons, then you need a visit to dictionary.com.

And as to this being torture -- no it isn't. No one is being beaten or denied medical care. We make people listen to rap and turn up the air conditioner, both things Americans do to themselves on a fairly regular basis. And people in nursing homes and hospitals crap themselves daily.

is america so paranoid after 9-11 that it is willing to lower itself to torture? and claim it is just, moral and right? is that what america has became over the last 4 years? a country where people are tortured and the population doesn't care?
Is Europe so heartless as to not care whether 3000 more Americans die? Why does America need to sit back and let an attack happen rather than do what it can to find out where and when the next 9-11 will happen? Will Europe send appologies to the next victims? How many Americans are enough?

to be under the constitution or geneva is irrelavant. they are governed by human rights treaties. it would still render torture illegal. and the men who perform it war criminals.
But cold rooms and rap music aren't torture. Crapping your pants isn't torture. Gourmet dinners aren't torture.