And the DC political circus gets even more ridiculous

[The Man]

After reading a FBI agent’s description of Guantánamo Bay, Senator Rick Durbin (D-IL) said that if you didn’t know that was about an American prison camp, you’d assume it described a prison from a much more infamous regime. Here’s the description he read:

On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. ... On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist called Durbin’s comments a “heinous slander against our country and the brave men and women risking their lives every day to defend it.” After several comments like Frist’s, Durbin was driven to apologize.

In other words, torture is now accepted national policy, and denouncing torture is regarded as treason.

Today White House political advisor Karl Rove gave Durbin a huge thank-you for his apology:

"Has there ever been a more revealing moment this year?" Mr. Rove asked. "Let me just put this in fairly simple terms: Al Jazeera now broadcasts the words of Senator Durbin to the Mideast, certainly putting our troops in greater danger. No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals."

And people wonder why I want to move out of this country.

Discuss.

edit: There's currently a movement to ask Republican senators to denounce Karl Rove's words. I strongly encourage people to participate.

[edczxcvbnm]

I would send my republican representatives a letter...if one existed for me. I am sending Durbin a letter letting him know my dissappointment that he apologized. I would also like to state that he wasn't FORCED to do anything and it was a choice he made.

[The Man]

yes, Durbin’s apology was definitely a choice on his part, and to me represents the spinelessness of most Democrats right now. :/

[edczxcvbnm]

That is actually what I am writing to him about. He should be more like "STFU and do a good job Mofo!"

Rove: "OH NOES! they talk back!?!?"

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Disgusting. Both of them. The torture is bad enough, but the fact that he apologized for speaking the truth? What's this country coming too?

I'd say the treasonous ones are those who propogate these inhumane conditions and hide behind the veil of patriotism in order to better control America.

[Cloud No.9]

quantanamo bay is nothing new. before when i made apost about it many people said it was alrigth cos they were terrorists and so deserved it anyway or some such crap. america has lost all it's humanity since 9-11. it is used as an excuse for all kinds of war crimes. the idea that these people don't count as they are not strictly POWs is a lie. yes the geneva convention has a seperate section for them. but they have basic human rights. not all prisoners were even on the battlefield when captured. or anywhere near it. or ever been near it. but rounding them up in cuba and treating them in a way which you would not treat an animal is classed as okay. because they are the enemy.

we hung the nazis for similar crimes. we are trying people in the hague for the exact same thing. and then to say that to show this is wrong is absurd. america is committing torture on a daily basis. and who cares? noone. why? because they're just the enemy. and america has developed the conscious that the enemy no longer has rights.

people will die for what america has done. people will no longer stand for such treatment.

we all knew this long ago though. personally i would try anyone in charge of quantanamo bay. from the top down. torturers cannot be seen not to get the justice the deserve. any man found guilty of such war crimes needs to be hung. orders or not.

[The Man]

What pisses me off above and beyond the torture is it's not just the enemy who gets thrown in there. I've heard several reports that they'd just grab anyone who looked like a terrorist and shove them in there without habeas corpus. The Supreme Court ruled that was in violation of the Fourth Amendment, but from what I understand they've continued doing it anyway. It's like what Andrew Jackson said back in the day when he was slaughtering Indians: "The Supreme Court has made a decision. Now let it enforce it." I don't regard this as any better than that.

Anyway, Senator Minority Leader Harry Reid has called on Rove to apologize or resign. Which makes me happy.

[eestlinc]

For a good background article on what a quality person Karl Rove is, and why he gets away with what he does, read this article published in the Atlantic Monthly in November 2004. I think youi have to subscribe to read it, but here's the money quote:

"He [Rove] seems to understand - indeed, to count on - the media's unwillingness or inability, whether from squeamishness, laziness or professional caution, ever to give a full estimate of him or his work. It is ultimately not just Rove's skill but his character that allows him to perform on entirely different plane. Along with remarkable strategic skills, he has both an understanding of the media's unstated self-limitations and a willingness to fight in territory where conscience forbids most others."

If you want to know what tactics the article is talking about, try this site which reprints many parts of the article.

[The Man]

or just read Bush's Brain.

I haven't checked the blogs for a few hours, but as of about four hours ago, a bunch of Democrats had spoken out against Rove's remarks, and predictably, other Republican nutcases were chiming in with support of Rove.

[Sasquatch]

This Democrat spoke out of his ass on topics he knows very little about, fabricating, manipulating, and exaggerating stories, and people bitch because he had to apologize for the slander? Boo friggin Hoo.

Terrorists and terrorist suspects being held in Guantanimo Bay are not being tortured. It's pretty damn simple. The answer isn't "anybody who speaks out against the torture in Gitmo is a hero, and the people that speak out against them are evil", the answer is "anybody that talks about the "torture" in Gitmo is full of ."

[edczxcvbnm]

This Democrat spoke out of his ass on topics he knows very little about, fabricating, manipulating, and exaggerating stories, and people bitch because he had to apologize for the slander? Boo friggin Hoo.

Terrorists and terrorist suspects being held in Guantanimo Bay are not being tortured. It's pretty damn simple. The answer isn't "anybody who speaks out against the torture in Gitmo is a hero, and the people that speak out against them are evil", the answer is "anybody that talks about the "torture" in Gitmo is full of ."

Then why does the Bush administration refuse to let UN inspectors into the facilities there and in Iraq and Afgan? They have denied access to them since 2002. With all the stories that come out there has to be SOMETHING. I don't care how big or small but they are once again hiding SOMETHING.

[lordblazer]

the white house i.e. the executive branch seems to be having a lot of influencccce in the other branch of the gov.

[Casey]

Well, I quite frankly disagree with Mr. Durbin's nazi analogy. The mass murder, and genocide death camps that took place during world war 2 does not compare to that of Guantanamo. We treat our prisoners way better then when a U.S. soldier gets caught, just keep that in mind.

[Sasquatch]

Then why does the Bush administration refuse to let UN inspectors into the facilities there and in Iraq and Afgan? They have denied access to them since 2002. With all the stories that come out there has to be SOMETHING. I don't care how big or small but they are once again hiding SOMETHING.

Saddam kicks out UN weapons inspectors, and he's innocent. There are rumors that UN inspectors have a hard time meddling into Coalition affairs, and that means Bush is evil and hiding something?

Where is the UN's jurisdiction? It isn't a UN operation. It used to be, but that stopped when the controlling parties became involved in illegal trading with Saddam--there's your "blood for oil". If the UN wants to control it, they should get their asses in there and control the entire thing.

[lordblazer]

Well, I quite frankly disagree with Mr. Durbin's nazi analogy. The mass murder, and genocide death camps that took place during world war 2 does not compare to that of Guantanamo. We treat our prisoners way better then when a U.S. soldier gets caught, just keep that in mind.

lol yeah thats our main problem we are literally too humane wiht our prisoners I mean do something that is humane but still torture(make 'em watch 12 hours of teletubbies).