about the origin of ultimecia (big big spoiler)

[Christmas]

So in the end it is us that create the theory of yours is it?
Oh my, what a sin....and BTW, I am not here to teach you anything but just point out what is wrong so that you realize it is wrong.

And Time Compression is a time MAGIC as stated in the game but since you dun believe in anything in the game, just treat this as a reference.

A dimension of destiny is an universe where a certain event unfolds.
But the same event unfolds differently in different universes.
For exemple in an universe we have that Joseph borns,goes to school enter on Oxford,etc...
But someone can came from the future and change Joseph´s destiny.
Someone can kidnapp him and take him to a forest on Africa where he will grow with the animals.
These two life´s can coexist on Joseph but only on different universes which I call dimensions of destiny

Look, if that someone kidnap Joseph from the past into the future so that's mean Joseph no more existed in the past. So if Joseph went to Oxford and got kidnapped to the future into the jungle so in the past Joseph is missing.

So what in the world do you mean by coexisting and dimension of destiny?

And mind just posting all at one shot instead of posting halfway then add on.

[Discord]

I know that advertising is bad, but just for the sake of an experiment, vote on what you think is the TRUTH here.

[Future Esthar]

You don´t understand.He is kidnapped while he was a baby.

[crazybayman]

To everyone arguing with Future Esthar, don't you understand how pointless it is? None of his theories are even close to the realm of possibility, and the only reason he keeps coming up with them is because people argue back.

Just let him think whatever he wants.

Good point.

[Christmas]

You don´t understand.He is kidnapped while he was a baby.

How in the world do he get to Oxford if he is kidnapped when he is a baby? Dun tell me it is the same with the Edea=Julia thingy? Be creative....

And I can say that Ultimecia go take a walk in her castle and what basis can you say she is ALWAYS in the master room. Do she like to confine herself to her room ?

This is the similiar question I asked in your other thread but since there is some more add on "features" now.

Now X can time travel, use time compression and cause Lunar Cry.
Why in the world do he/she need Ellone?????????
And if you say he/she wanted to prevent Ellone from letting Squall and CO see the past, this won't valid since you say Squall remembered everything and also in the GAME Ellone is NEEDED to perform time compression not TO BE CAPTURED AND EXTERMINATED so that "X" will succeed.
Dun tell me the game lie AGAIN??????
Then why are you alway the bearer of the truth while the game is nothing but a pack of lies?

And you choose to ignore questions again.

[Future Esthar]

Look, dimensions of destiny were an opposite idea from time loops.
In this case the events happening on an universe A can be altered which will produce an universe B where the events will happen differently.
This universes I call dimensions of destiny.
Sir Bahamut is good with this things.You can ask him.

And I already answered all that questions,Unknowns.

[Christmas]

Look, dimensions of destiny were an opposite idea from time loops.
In this case the events happening on an universe A can be altered which will produce an universe B where the events will happen differently.
This universes I call dimensions of destiny.
Sir Bahamut is good with this things.You can ask him.

And I already answered all that questions,Unknowns.

Alright, forget abput the dimension of destiny thingy.

You just give an example as an answer to all the questions in the other thread and I proved your example wrong.

Even if you insisted that Ellone is Rinoa in the screenshot, then what about the other stuff that you say that can be proved by graphical details?

And you still didn't answer the questions in my previous posts as shown in the quote.

[Future Esthar]

I answered them.Let me revive your memory.
"Since X possess Ulti and is responsible to the Lunar Cry Ulti obviously will be at the master room.She will not fall for her trap."
"Squall and company remembers thing with time.They don´t remember all the things at the same time".
Which means Ulti wanna to prevent Elle to enable them to see the past.
X just needs to seal Ellone´s powers.He don´t need do destroy her.

By the way do you remember me telling that X wanna to turn Squall and company into a single sorceress?
From now on I will call this sorceress Y to make things simple.

[Christmas]

I answered them.Let me revive your memory.
"Since X possess Ulti and is responsible to the Lunar Cry Ulti obviously will be at the master room.She will not fall for her trap."
"Squall and company remembers thing with time.They don´t remember all the things at the same time".
Which means Ulti wanna to prevent Elle to enable them to see the past.

By the way do you remember me telling that X wanna to turn Squall and company into a single sorceress?
From now on I will call this sorceress Y to make things simple.

Ok. Look, I rebuttled your theories and you just say that some part of almost every part of the game is a lie.

Then you say you can prove your theory by graphical details and events then you give an example.

I rebuttled your example and you say the two screenshot of Rinoa=Ellone is proof.

Both Xaven and I dun agree on what is on the screenshot but if you insisted that is truth, very well,

But what about the rest of the theory which you say can be backed up by graphical details?

And mind if you answer those questions on the thread itself on not on this one.

X just needs to seal Ellone´s powers.He don´t need do destroy her.

Like the game say, she is NEEDED for TIME COMPRESSION and not sealed but you will just say it is a lie anyway.

BTW, you haven't answer the questions on the "wonder how people didn't notice this thread" and the sorceress popping out of nowhere.

[Future Esthar]

Yes I answered.
When the characters reach the bottom of Lunatic Pandora it time travels.
Then we see all the sorceresses from the Centra dinasty in reverse chronological order.
Rinoa->Quistis->Selphie->Edea = Ulti.
The pandora goes to the past until it get´s to Ulti´s(Edea´s) time.
It´s logical to me.
Don´t you remember this is exactly the way the dinasty goes when the eyes genetics is taken into consideration.

[Christmas]

Yes I answered.
When the characters reach the bottom of Lunatic Pandora it time travels.

This one isn't valid since you can't explain how do those sorceress just pop out of nowhere to attack you and since you explained they are actually Rinoa, Selphie and Quistis as I should say they look no where alike(you are going to say their looks deform due to black magic aren't you?) and there is more than just three sorceress you battled along the way.

Then we see all the sorceresses from the Centra dinasty in reverse chronological order.
Rinoa->Quistis->Selphie->Edea = Ulti.

The hair genetics certainly dun apply here.

The pandora goes to the past until it get´s to Ulti´s(Edea´s) time.
It´s logical to me.
Don´t you remember this is exactly the way the dinasty goes when the eyes genetics is taken into consideration.

You also have no proof of how is the Centra Civilization is like and what make you think they are ruled by kings and queens?

And if the pandora is the time machine that take them to Ulti's time, then where is the pandora after Squall and CO reached Ulti's time. WHy can't we see it?

[SquallxLeon]

I answered them.Let me revive your memory.
"Since X possess Ulti and is responsible to the Lunar Cry Ulti obviously will be at the master room.She will not fall for her trap."
"Squall and company remembers thing with time.They don´t remember all the things at the same time".
Which means Ulti wanna to prevent Elle to enable them to see the past.
X just needs to seal Ellone´s powers.He don´t need do destroy her.

By the way do you remember me telling that X wanna to turn Squall and company into a single sorceress?
From now on I will call this sorceress Y to make things simple.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dr. Odine explain how Ultimecia needed Ellone's powers to go further into the past. Ultimecia is currently using Dr. Odine's ... ' machine that mimics ellone's powers ' and thats how she sends her consiciousness into the past while leaving her body in the present. However that machine as Dr. Odine said has it's limits in how far it can go back. Therefore Ultimecia must NEED Ellone not seal her, in order to go further back. Besides Ellone can only see the past of people she knows.

[Future Esthar]

This one isn't valid since you can't explain how do those sorceress just pop out of nowhere to attack you and since you explained they are actually Rinoa, Selphie and Quistis as I should say they look no where alike(you are going to say their looks deform due to black magic aren't you?) and there is more than just three sorceress you battled along the way.

They DO look alike.
The first sorceress not only dress blue but has long black hair and seems young.
The second sorceress dresses a cloth with different colors but they are all in the yellow tonality.Also the sorceress seems older,experienced and mature like Quistis which is an instructor.The third sorceress is the one which is more difficult to see the similarities.This happens because she is near her Propagator form.Look at her arms and you will see similarities with the propagator ones.I will come back to this one.The fourth one is Ulti which I theorized that she was Edea.I will try to show evidence of that with time.
A sorceress can appear many times.But it doesn´t mean they were different sorceresses.Since they are equal they should be the same.
Basically X possessed these sorceresses while the Pandora time travels to kick SeeD ass.

And if the pandora is the time machine that take them to Ulti's time, then where is the pandora after Squall and CO reached Ulti's time. WHy can't we see it?

This is in fact the proof that the Pandora time travels because the world map we see in the fourth disc is not on Ulti´s time (to say it is is to be in direct contradiction with what we see in the game).
But when you are on Ulti´s time(not on the world map) you note there is a limited freedom of movement due to the fact that The Pandora surrounds the castle.The walls also create the "cloud movement" film.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dr. Odine explain how Ultimecia needed Ellone's powers to go further into the past. Ultimecia is currently using Dr. Odine's ... ' machine that mimics ellone's powers ' and thats how she sends her consiciousness into the past while leaving her body in the present. However that machine as Dr. Odine said has it's limits in how far it can go back. Therefore Ultimecia must NEED Ellone not seal her, in order to go further back. Besides Ellone can only see the past of people she knows.

Don´t get confused,please.What I said was not a part of game´s walkthrough but a theory of mine on what really happens.

[Xaven]

Then we see all the sorceresses from the Centra dinasty in reverse chronological order.
Rinoa->Quistis->Selphie->Edea = Ulti.

The hair genetics certainly dun apply here.

Don't you remember me explaining how it is an impossibility for any main character to be a child of Rinoa? *sigh* If you're going to tear this game apart looking for evidence of your theories, then I shall do the same to prove my views.

Okay, let me show you AGAIN.

I'm not going to touch anything on the hair genetics as I am not as familiar with it verses eye color traits.

Rinoa = B,B (Dark brown on the verge of black)
Squall = b,b (Blue)
Child = B,b; B,b; B,b; B,b (A moderate, light brown)

Brown (B) is the dominant trait over blue (b). Any possible combination of genes from Rinoa and Squall (or any other male for that matter) would result in the offspring having at least one Brown gene and thus, a shade of brown eyes. None of the main characters have brown eyes.

The reverse also holds true. Rinoa can not be the offspring of any of the main characters. No one else has even a single Brown gene (You witnessed this yourself.) and Rinoa has two!

Also, Selphie can not be the child of Quistis and Zell as neither of them have even one Semi-dominant (U) gene. However, Seifer has a U gene, so Selphie could be the child of Edea and Seifer, but that would require you changing your theory... again.

We already covered this and you just blew it off last time.

[Christmas]

Art galleries don´t need to have pictures related to each other.That´s why they are art.

So then why did you insist the "watchman", "love" and "red clothes" are related to each other?

Julia don´t die.Deling made it look like she was dead but she was not.He uses media to confuse people

You once say she died and got buried in dingo desert then deling came along and revive her with magic now she didn't die?

Do you know realize what you have been doing? You just keep taking back the every words you spoke and replace their after you got rebuttled and this is not the first time you did this.

And no this is not call learning from us,the non open minded(or open minded in a small aspect) and "whatever "members you claimed.

We are here to point out what is wrong and let you realize your mistakes.Unlike what you are doing now, you insisted that your theory must be correct and must be the truth no matter what despite that it is not the only one or two flaws that surfaced. And if someone rebuttled, you just quickly cover up the flaw and claimed that you are learning, but in truth trying to save your own pride.

Your so call seek for truth is just something to turn your theory into a flawless one which is originally full of flaws at the very foundation of the theroy itself. And if the foundation is rotten, no matter how you cover it, it will not prevent people to see the rot. We are not primary school teachers here to correct your compositions so that you can write better next time you know.

And why did he revive her so that she will kill him in the future? ("X" again aren't you?)

In fact Laguna recognizes Edea was Julia but keep it silent(according to his watchman personality).

And how do you know this and I interpret the watchmen differently from yours so you can't use the portrait as proof since there are different interpretations.

This could as well be a fanfiction that tells what the writer intended when he created the story.

I must say you are not FIT to say this statement non anyone than the writer himself or someone that the writer recognized. Do you know that by saying reflect on your arrogant and how you are so full of yourself on your theory when you cannot even prove it and just by all those words you claimed logic supported by nothing then your mouth.

Exactly.But the information at the tutorial is not supposed to be something that the author intended.It represents a summary of the current knowledge people gains in the game.

It is the HISTORY and TRUTH of what is about the game or else it will not appear in there if it is meant to confuse people. The current knowledge gained by the people in the game is what is told by the game itself so it make sense that it is the truth and what the author wanted everyone to know.

Look,their real identities as Propagators shows up when their are possessed.X uses all their potentialities when he possess them.

You said they are propagators just based on the deformed hand of Edea which is caused by the practice of black magic which you admit than later went back on your words once again as usual. And some monsters in the game have deformed body parts too so Edea and gang is related to those monsters? Also the practice of black magic is concrete proof from the Game Guide which Square sell for a living. Do you think Square will post lies inside and take the risks of losing it income when you unreveal the truth?

And if Edea is proven propagator by her hand, then what about the others?

Their sorceress abilities come from the fact that they are Propagators.The transformations we see in the game were parcial though.
If they transform tottally we would see them in the form of Propagators.

No, they are not and this link is the proof:



This link is directly taken from the tutorial and you can't say it is lie as I proved the tutorial is the truth and you are not in the position to claim the tutorial is a lie anyway.

Also we dun see any of them transforming into propagator in the game except from you of course. And since you see what is claim parcial, post a screenshot like you alway rely on graphical details.

There is no real basis to say that(except Ellone which is Rinoa).
With more accuracy I can show you that Quistis and Selphie were sorceresses.

Your so called accuracy is still not valid and the genes is one of the problem that bring down what you call accuracy.

By Edea´s house I mean an area around the house.There is no proof that Sorceress Adel went to that area.So she can´t be Ulti.As I said Ulti´s time was on the past,not the future.

And you can't say Adel didn't go there either. There are a lot of questions like this which you can't say is right and wrong so this can't be used as a point and along with several and I can point out that there might be other sorceress hiding in the world as stated below:

2a-X is the responsible for every Lunar Cry.The Lunar cry is needed for Time Compression to succeed.
2b-Since Ulti was on the master room she don´t get buried.Only the lower parts of the castle were buried

Once again I will say this is really "stories" to me since I can also say I am responsible for every Lunar cry and I am the one behind all this plot. Every tiny little things that you found hard to cover, you shifted them to "X" which I claimed to be Hyne/Yu Yevon.

Instead of being a dinasty of Centra kings they all were get to an orphanage on Ulti´s time
Exactly.Which means Edea was a queen over Centra before the Lunar cry.

Once again, there is no telling how the Centra is ruled as told in the game with a link provided to support it not to say Edea is a queen too that is since I claimed myself as the Emperess of the Centra Empire.
Anyone want to be my subjects?

Exactly.But I am also serious in trying to find the thruth.

You dun seem to be seeking the truth but making a flawless "theory" by "amending" it each time people rebuttled.

Oh yeah.Sure they can´t proof it.But they can proof it´s possible.Otherwise show me wrong.

You were the one that say you no need proof for theories and once again you want people to prove it to you? Just how many time you just eat back your words? Aren't you afraid you might get unbalanced digestion for such an unhealthy diet? And we did show prove which you just claim they are lies or just quickly took back your words like now. But even we can't proof it, you cannot proof it possible either.
There is not only wrong or right in this world like black and white. There is alway a grey spot in the middle.

And why my theory is impossible?.Show me why.If you tell it it´s because you know why.
Just give-me a little example.You don´t need to comment it all.

By all the points I pointed up from your first threads to this one and several unanswered questions you claimed you have answered.
if you want more of my example, go search my posts on your thread.

I am really sure that almost all of my theories were thruth.It´s not the case that I know they are not true.Really.
I am not the type of person who would present theories which I know aren´t thruth just to irritate people.
In fact I did this with a few of them but just a little few.But it was not to irritate people.In fact it was the opposite

Truth need to be proven and supported with facts and proofs especially with those that came from the game itself which you claimed they are lying which your theories dun except for those rumblings that you made which is just what you think is logicial and supported with nothing rather than your words.And once again you are also not FIT to make such a statement unless Square recognize it as the TRUTH or this is just your pure deduction.

No fan-based theory is truth unless proven so pls dun be so full of yourself and you do know that it us that point out your flaws which you secretly went to cover it up and claimed credit for yourself.

(the truth would irritate the people)

That is why you refuse to accept the truth and create a dream world for yourself which you claimed to be the truth

Squall don´t remember everything at once.He remember as long as time passes.One time he remembers this,then on another time that,etc...
He just have the flashback of the master room when he approaches it.

When is this happening and how come no one knew it except the bearer of truth that is you. And we dun see any flashback when a Squall approach the master room.

X just needs to seal Ellone´s powers.He don´t need do destroy her

Like I repeat myself which you left answered as usual for some mysterious reasons :Like the game say, she is NEEDED for TIME COMPRESSION and not sealed

They DO look alike.
The first sorceress not only dress blue but has long black hair and seems young.
The second sorceress dresses a cloth with different colors but they are all in the yellow tonality.Also the sorceress seems older,experienced and mature like Quistis which is an instructor.The third sorceress is the one which is more difficult to see the similarities.This happens because she is near her Propagator form.Look at her arms and you will see similarities with the propagator ones.I will come back to this one.The fourth one is Ulti which I theorized that she was Edea.I will try to show evidence of that with time.

FOR ALL GAMERS OUT THERE, FRANKLY SPEAKING, DO ANYONE THINK THE RANDOM SORCERESS THAT YOU FOUGHT DURING TIME COMPRESSION LOOK ANYWHERE ALIKE TO RINOA, QUISTIS AND SELPHIE????

A sorceress can appear many times.But it doesn´t mean they were different sorceresses.Since they are equal they should be the same.
Basically X possessed these sorceresses while the Pandora time travels to kick SeeD ass.

And who told you this? A fairy godmother or the seven dwarfs? If the same sorceress can appear many time, why didn't Adel just keep coming back instead of those freaks? And for your info they are not equal.

Don´t get confused,please.What I said was not a part of game´s walkthrough but a theory of mine on what really happens.

Once again, you still can't claim it to be truth oh mightly one and this is no theory at least from my POV. Wonder why ppl take the effort to write the walkthrough only to be ruined by you.

And Xaven's eyes genetic and my hair genetics dun apply and you avoided the questions once again for some unknown reason.