about the origin of ultimecia (big big spoiler)

[TheAbominatrix]

Then that would mean that all Sorceress' in history went crazy with power, which was not the case.

[GunbladeMaster]

Meltdown
Vitality 0
striked down by mod and a teen
beep..........beep...........BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP........................................ ..............

[Sir Bahamut]

The Abominatrix has got it right here, in that the ONLY thing which could have made the R=U theory plausible is if a sorceress had extended lifespan. The Ultimania crushed that idea for good, and any other attempt is purely grasping at sraws to enable a theory which isn't even backed up by the game to begin with! Absurd!

However, you got one thing wrong. We don't know all that much about TC, but it WOULD give Ultimecia God-like powers. Firstly, it would place all the sorceress powers from every point in time onto Ultimecia. Since sorceress powers add up, she would be vastly more powerful than even Hyne, who created mankind. On top of that, she goes on to absorb all of time(which would have been compressed) and also space(probably because of her new powers caused by TC). This is all based on Ultimecias scan info by the way, in case you wanted to know.

Anyway, to conclude, it is obvious that by compressing time and absorbing all of time and space, Ultimecia would be a God, with such vast powers that she would certainly be able to recreate space and time in any way she wanted(ie. "..a dimension where [SeeD] will be [her] slaves for eternity!").

[Rinoa2005]

The Abominatrix has got it right here, in that the ONLY thing which could have made the R=U theory plausible is if a sorceress had extended lifespan. The Ultimania crushed that idea for good, and any other attempt is purely grasping at sraws to enable a theory which isn't even backed up by the game to begin with! Absurd!

However, you got one thing wrong. We don't know all that much about TC, but it WOULD give Ultimecia God-like powers. Firstly, it would place all the sorceress powers from every point in time onto Ultimecia. Since sorceress powers add up, she would be vastly more powerful than even Hyne, who created mankind. On top of that, she goes on to absorb all of time(which would have been compressed) and also space(probably because of her new powers caused by TC). This is all based on Ultimecias scan info by the way, in case you wanted to know.

Anyway, to conclude, it is obvious that by compressing time and absorbing all of time and space, Ultimecia would be a God, with such vast powers that she would certainly be able to recreate space and time in any way she wanted(ie. "..a dimension where [SeeD] will be [her] slaves for eternity!").

I agree TC will give ulti a godlike power...
about the lifespan thing, that's not the only way for the R=U theory to be plausible.
Maybe Rinoa find another way to live longer.

[Sir Bahamut]

You missed my point.

Sure, if you allow yourself to speculate enough you'll probably be able to come up with a way for Rinoa to become Ultimecia, but any such speculation would be based only on your imagination, and as such, would NOT be plausible.

What I mean is that the only way the theory would be plausible is if the game itself made it clear that it was possible, and hints at it as well. However, the game only gives us reason to believe that Rinoa cannot in any way become Ultimecia, so the theory isn't plausible.

[Rinoa2005]

You missed my point.

Sure, if you allow yourself to speculate enough you'll probably be able to come up with a way for Rinoa to become Ultimecia, but any such speculation would be based only on your imagination, and as such, would NOT be plausible.

What I mean is that the only way the theory would be plausible is if the game itself made it clear that it was possible, and hints at it as well. However, the game only gives us reason to believe that Rinoa cannot in any way become Ultimecia, so the theory isn't plausible.

ok you are right.... she's not ulti... i give up

[Ishikawa Minoru]

Quite frankly I have a hard time repudiating the R=U theory,mainly because I fell the game would lack much of its meaning if that component is taken away from us.
If you remember when the party asks Doctor Odine why the hell does Ultimecia plan to compress time,he evades the subject all together saying that there must be some reason.
I know some of you have postulated TC would grant Ultimecia the powers of a goddess and all that,but seriously,how much do we know about her to even consider her a worthy opponent.In FFVI we came to know Kefka,whose aspirations were somewhat similar,from the very beggining of the game,we knew he was insane and why he was insane and so on...about Ulti,well,what do we know when she only speaks five or six lines on disk 4??
Furthermore,the Ultimania guide is somewhat vague...Witches might have normal livespans,but cannot die unless they pass on their power.Now,what happens if they,say,live for 150 years w/out passing on their power?There's no clear cut answer and that's why I think they'll be able to leave forever if they refuse to forfeit their power.If they do so,they'll live a normal life.If they don't they'll go on living indefinitely.
if this is true then she might have chosen to go on living...but perhaps she went out of wack and became corrupted.I don't think Grievier is a relevant factor here,but rather a combination of what the party fears the most,like some members have mentioned before.
Once Squall died she might have become lonely,insane,and started planning on a way to get her beloved back forever.That's TC.Either she'd bring him back or,by becoming a Goddess she'd start some sort of new world where everything happened the way she wanted it to happen.
This is just my view,feel free to disagree.

[GunbladeMaster]

o great
now Sir B is gonna come out and argue ur theory
this should be fun
**gets popcorn**

[Ishikawa Minoru]

o great
now Sir B is gonna come out and argue ur theory
this should be fun
**gets popcorn**

No need to man,I know when to admit I got it wrong.If she's a normal livespan then she'd age like everybody else and would have the body of a cripple.You guys are right.
But still,I'd like to know why does Ultimecia(through Edea) say that Squall's the one who's destined to kill her?

[Sir Bahamut]

Well, the best theory on Ultimecia I know of, answers your question perfectly. It can be found in the FAQ I've linked to before in this topic, but here it is again:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197343.html

Find the "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ", and go to the section called "An Ultimecian Analysis - The Unjust Persecution". It's all there, including the answer to your question.

[Ishikawa Minoru]

Well, the best theory on Ultimecia I know of, answers your question perfectly. It can be found in the FAQ I've linked to before in this topic, but here it is again:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197343.html

Find the "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ", and go to the section called "An Ultimecian Analysis - The Unjust Persecution". It's all there, including the answer to your question.

Thanks,it really is a very nice piece of work!
I specially like the "Unjust Persecution" theory...you can kinda feel sorry for Ulti there.

[mj05]

I clicked on the gamefaqs link and didnt read much of it just yet..(its really long!). So, what does it come down to? Is it pro/con to the Rinoa-Ultimecia theory?

[Ishikawa Minoru]

I clicked on the gamefaqs link and didnt read much of it just yet..(its really long!). So, what does it come down to? Is it pro/con to the Rinoa-Ultimecia theory?

It's basically the presentation of two different theories pertaining to the nature of time in the world of FFVIII:the static time theory(Sir Bahamut's) and the Dynamic Time Theory(SquallofSeed's);a point by point refutation of the R=U theory and a possible explaination for Ultimecia's psychopathological nature.
It's rather lenghty,but it's certainly one of the best FAQs I've ever read.Highly recommended!

[Rinoa2005]

Quite frankly I have a hard time repudiating the R=U theory,mainly because I fell the game would lack much of its meaning if that component is taken away from us.
If you remember when the party asks Doctor Odine why the hell does Ultimecia plan to compress time,he evades the subject all together saying that there must be some reason.
I know some of you have postulated TC would grant Ultimecia the powers of a goddess and all that,but seriously,how much do we know about her to even consider her a worthy opponent.In FFVI we came to know Kefka,whose aspirations were somewhat similar,from the very beggining of the game,we knew he was insane and why he was insane and so on...about Ulti,well,what do we know when she only speaks five or six lines on disk 4??
Furthermore,the Ultimania guide is somewhat vague...Witches might have normal livespans,but cannot die unless they pass on their power.Now,what happens if they,say,live for 150 years w/out passing on their power?There's no clear cut answer and that's why I think they'll be able to leave forever if they refuse to forfeit their power.If they do so,they'll live a normal life.If they don't they'll go on living indefinitely.
if this is true then she might have chosen to go on living...but perhaps she went out of wack and became corrupted.I don't think Grievier is a relevant factor here,but rather a combination of what the party fears the most,like some members have mentioned before.
Once Squall died she might have become lonely,insane,and started planning on a way to get her beloved back forever.That's TC.Either she'd bring him back or,by becoming a Goddess she'd start some sort of new world where everything happened the way she wanted it to happen.
This is just my view,feel free to disagree.

I think I know what you mean. But is not as if she could just decide that wants to keep her powers and live 4ever. if her body is about to die she'll have to give up her power like it or not.

[MJN SEIFER]

That's debatable

The truth is... Jenova is Ultimecia.
Yep, FFVII's 'background villain' is actually Ultimecia.
There is IRREFUTABLE PROOF in both games.

Jenova can survive travel through space. Thus, Jenova could get from one world to another. If the worlds of FFVII and FFVIII are in fact the same world, then this is fine too - Jenova can survive for millennia, buried in solid rock.

"But Jenova was destroyed!" you all cry. Actually, Jenova's body has the ability to re-form when it's dismembered - even when it's apparently dead.

Both Jenova and Ultimecia are female, and both want to attain God-like power and rule over an entire world.

Jenova has the power to change her form. Ultimecia transforms, as well. Jenova can alter her appearance, gaining the appearance and voice of other people. Jenova and Ultimecia look nothing alike, which proves that they are one and the same, just using different forms.

This is utterly, completely, irrefutably, incontrovertibly, undoubtedly, undeniably, undisputably, indubitablly, unquestionably true.
Coz I sez so.

I don't know how serious you are, but you're actualy right!