about the origin of ultimecia (big big spoiler)

[Xaven]

The internet breeds lies for the sake of being popular amongst people you will never meet.

That is an awesome quote, I must say.


~Keep it gooey~

I agree.

:<3:

[Winter Nights]

The internet breeds lies for the sake of being popular amongst people you will never meet.

That is an awesome quote, I must say.


~Keep it gooey~

I agree.

:<3:

I think I have fans.

[Future Esthar]

I was able to show better evidence that Ulti=Julia than anyone was on showing Ulti=Rinoa.
Ulti=Julia has better evidence.

[Winter Nights]

I'm sorry, but making up details that aren't mentioned anywhere in the game, then calling them theories, isn't evidence.

[Future Esthar]

You didn´t read the entire subject or you would see that every thing required to prove it was mentioned in the game.
The paintings were there,the organ was there,the red clothe on Ulti was there,etc...

[Winter Nights]

You didn´t read the entire subject or you would see that every thing required to prove it was mentioned in the game.
The paintings were there,the organ was there,the red clothe on Ulti was there,etc...

I did read it. And you are looking WAY too deep into things that are NEVER stated.

[Future Esthar]

It was never stated half of the things implied in the Rinoa=Ulti theory.
And the only set of pictures you had to prove this was a picture of Rinoa and Ulti.
And they look too different.
This was not the case in the Julia=Ulti theory.
The Xerampelinae picture look a lot like Julia.
And i think i was convincing when I show the picture was from Ulti.

[Winter Nights]

I think the R=U theory is looking way too into the game, as well. There is no reason to think that the story goes beyond what is actually stated.

[Future Esthar]

Good.
Can I ask you questions if I get some problem on my pc?

[Winter Nights]

If you catch me on messenger, that means I'm not at work. Then, it would be fine.

Making me worker harder than I want at work would be bad.

[Squall of SeeD]

You mean that one fansite? Nah.. Wasn't talking about that. It was actually in a gaming mag a few years back. Someone asked that in their letters section and the mag got an answer from Square. For the life of me I can't remember which one it was.. Have to go through my back issues to find it.

Wait, what? Are we talking about actual proof here? Find that magazine, Autumn. I will buy it from you. Seriously.

[Winter Nights]

Yeah, I mean actual proof. I have alot of backlogs of different gaming mags, so I will have a look through them and see if I can find it.

[Squall of SeeD]

Yeah, I mean actual proof. I have alot of backlogs of different gaming mags, so I will have a look through them and see if I can find it.

Please do! That's something I would definitely be willing to purchase from you.

[PhoenixAsh]

I couldn't be bothered to read the thread after Future Esthar's theory came up (no offense, I just wanted to focus on R=U), so if I repeat I apologise.

R=U is a fairly good theory if you allow yourself to be imaginative outside the game. If you accept that you may interpret what you want outside the plot as long as it doesn't contradict things and has at least plausable reasoning, then I like it. Unfortunately one of the main reasons for supporting R=U is discounted in the Japanese version (I'm not sure if it is in the English), that being Griever. In the Japan version he is definitely from Squall's mind, in the English version it is only hinted as such (I may be wrong on that). As I find this explanation pretty lame for many reasons I don't worry much about it, though it possibly indicates Square's view on the theory.

The location of Ulti's castle is an indication, though not one I've particularly cared about, I suppose thinking about it it makes sense, but I wouldn't put much faith in it.

There is a LOT of foreshadowing in the game about things, such as Rinoa talking about Squall's sword piercing her heart or something, and talk about sorceresses going bad without a knight.

I forget what else, but theres a lot... I might come back and add, but for brief detail, R=U has back-up, but neither way is proven. Squall is NOT required to be Griever in the theory though (I never thought he was).

[Big D]

As for Griever being Squall, that's directly contradicted by the game, which makes it clear that Ultimecia created Griever on the spot during that fight from the feelings of her opponents. Griever was, in Squall's mind, the most powerful of beings.

I disagree that Ultimecia simply made Griever on the spot. All we're told in the game - by Scanning Griever - is that Griever is, "in Squall's mind the most powerful GF". This could simply imply that Squall believes Griever to be the most powerful GF. The fact that Squall has Griever icons on his necklace, ring and gublade suggest that it's more than just a made-up imaginary friend. Squall doesn't strike me as the type to simply invent a make-believe plaything and then waste time and money having metal tokens cast and manufactured for his own use. Squall's minor idolisation of Griever suggests, to me, that Griever is a being that is known to some people in the FFVIII world - like an obscure legend of a mighty lion-god or something. Not everyone's familiar with the story, hence why he had to explain it to Rinoa, but it's obviously familiar to more than a few since there's apparently enough demand to warrant the production of Griever paraphernalia - jewellry, gunblades, gunblade cases, gunblade handle tokens.

I reckon that Griever is 'the most powerful GF', one that's always existed and been known in the FFVIII world, but was finally caught and used by Ultimecia. It just makes a kind of literary sense for Squall ultimately to confront the very beast that he's always admired and always believed supreme - it means he really *is* in for a tough fight, not just another Sorceress with just another GF.