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Thread: about the origin of ultimecia (big big spoiler)

  1. #106

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    Media manipulate people in the game and not people outside the game. People outside the game can rely on other sources to see what is the truth and not from only the game. And the game creator provide those information and not the "media" inside the game.
    Exactly.But the information at the tutorial is not supposed to be something that the author intended.It represents a summary of the current knowledge people gains in the game.
    Look,their real identities as Propagators shows up when their are possessed.X uses all their potentialities when he possess them.
    Their sorceress abilities come from the fact that they are Propagators.The transformations we see in the game were parcial though.
    If they transform tottally we would see them in the form of Propagators.
    Unknowns,I had sent you a PM yesterday.

    Woggly Blight,to what theory of mine are you refferring?
    They are alive in TC.TC is always on the entire game with the exception of Ultiīs time.
    Last edited by Future Esthar; 07-17-2005 at 07:44 PM.
    Flo:Honey,the clock is late.Go out fix it.
    Mayor Dobe:What hours is it?
    Flo: 15:30
    Mayor Dobe:Hey do you wanna to send the Estharians to Centra or what?
    Flo:Ok,let it be on 3:45

    Images removed for being utterly colossal. Please use images that conform to the size limit.

    Regards,
    Big D

  2. #107
    Banned Destai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future Esthar
    Yesterday I saw Men in Black 1.
    In the end the alien with human form changes to his alien insect form.
    Gotcha?
    Keep the crazy theories inside the game please. If you dont theyll go down in quality.

  3. #108

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    Ulty lives, as stated before any time compression that took place, that she lived far in the future. so far in the future its not possible for any of them to even exist. Your reading way to deep trying to find connections that just are not there, between monsters, Julia or whatever.

    "NPC: Sorry this house is sealed off because of Blight"

  4. #109

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    Here is an interesting tidbit I found on answers.com regarding the issue. It lists almost all known facts known for and against the theory. Sorry if this it too long or not part of the current discussion, I found it interesting.

    Based on this conversation, one theory suggests that Ultimecia is actually a future version of Rinoa, driven mad by grief after Squall's death, who intends to compress time as a way of regaining her beloved. The theory is attractive because it provides Ultimecia with the depth, background, and motivation that many felt she lacked. However, all the alleged evidence for the theory is highly debatable, and it remains purely speculative. The most commonly cited arguments for the theory are discussed below.

    * Edea looks significantly younger than her husband, Cid Kramer. Based on this, many players believe that sorceresses do not age. If this is true, Rinoa would almost inevitably outlive her "knight," leading to her becoming evil. However, the game actually makes it clear that sorceresses do in fact age - Edea was five years old when she became a sorceress, but is clearly an adult at the time of the game. It is possible that sorceresses age more slowly than ordinary humans, or that they age until adulthood and then stop. If this is true, though, then it seems extremely unusual that no one in the game - especially Edea herself - ever mentions it.

    * Proponents of the theory often claim that Rinoa and Ultimecia have the same facial structure. However, this is highly subjective; many see no resemblance, or point out other characters in the game who look more alike.

    * The theory's advocates often argue that the game says a sorceress must die in order to pass on her powers. Rinoa received her powers from Edea, yet Edea did not die. This mystery surrounding the source of Rinoa's powers is often used to suggest that somehow Rinoa must be Ultimecia. However, this argument is based on a misinterpretation. The game does not say a sorceress must die to pass on her powers; rather, it says that a sorceress must pass on her powers before she can die peacefully, which is not the same thing.

    * Ultimecia has black feathered wings on her back. Rinoa has a design suggesting white angel's wings on the back of her duster, and ghostly white wings appear on her back when she goes into Angelwing, one of her limit breaks. However, Edea also has black feathers on her gown, and the Sorceress Adel has a wing-like structure on her back, so it's possible that wings are simply a symbol associated with sorceresses in general, rather than any particular sorceress.

    * While on the Ragnarok with Squall, Rinoa says that she wishes time would stand still. Opponents of the theory point out that time, memory, and the importance of moving forward rather than clinging to the past are all major themes in the game, and that it's therefore not surprising if multiple characters voice similar sentiments.

    * Rinoa and Squall promise one another that if they are ever separated, they will meet in the field of flowers next to Edea's cottage. Ultimecia's castle is located near the cottage, and proponents of the theory suggest that Ultimecia placed her palace there due to her hopes of finding Squall through time compression. Those opposed to the theory say this is simply coincidence, and point out that the castle must be located near the field of flowers to make possible the romantic scene in which Rinoa finds Squall there after the final battle.

    * After becoming a sorceress, Rinoa worries about the possibility that she will become evil and her friends will be forced to fight her; "Squall's sword will pierce my heart," she says. Advocates of the theory interpret this as foreshadowing.

    * Squall has a ring and pendant with the image of a stylized lion that he calls "Griever." He gives the ring to Rinoa during the game. In the final battle, Ultimecia summons a powerful Guardian Force - a winged lion named Griever. Some fans suggest that Ultimecia actually obtained Griever from Squall's ring; another GF in the game, Doomtrain, is obtained through an item called the Solomon Ring. However, this argument is contradicted by the original Japanese-language version of the game, which makes it clear that Ultimecia actually draws Griever from within Squall's mind.

    * In the game's ending FMV, the image of Ultimecia's face flashes quickly over Rinoa's face three times. This is the only FMV footage of Ultimecia in the entire game. However, it comes in a hallucination that contains a number of bizarre and unexplained images.

    * The junctioning of GFs has the side effect of causing severe long-term memory loss. Proponents of the theory invoke this fact to explain why Ultimecia would attempt to kill Squall, her long-lost love, when he confronts her. However, while GFs do cause loss of conscious memories, it is clear that the memories are not completely destroyed, and that emotional reactions based on the lost memories remain. Squall's rivalry with Seifer and Quistis' crush on Squall are both caused by childhood events that Squall and Quistis have forgotten due to their GF use. However, Ultimecia shows no reaction at all to meeting either Squall or Rinoa. This fact is perhaps the strongest argument against the theory; the love story between Rinoa and Squall is a major focus of the game, and it seems highly unlikely that a future version of Rinoa would not react in some way to meeting her lost love.

    Opponents of the theory point to an editorial (http://www.square-x.com/news/169) posted on SquareX (http://www.square-x.com/), the writer of which claims to have spoken with an unnamed source at Square who denies the connection. The veracity of this account, and the identity of the source, are unclear, and proponents of the theory have expressed doubts as to its authenticity.

  5. #110
    Gobbledygook! Recognized Member Christmas's Avatar
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    the writer of which claims to have spoken with an unnamed source at Square who denies the connection
    Maybe this line answer all questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Esthar
    Exactly.But the information at the tutorial is not supposed to be something that the author intended.
    Then what is it for? For everyone to have a good laugh? Then if the tutorial is not supposed to be something that the author intended, then the tutorial of "Basic Operation" ...etc (mainly on how to play the game)is also not the author intended? Then how do the author intend us to play the game? Communicate with Squall through the force and command him to attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Esthar
    It represents a summary of the current knowledge people gains in the game.
    It also tell us what INDEED happen in the game or have already HAPPENED in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Esthar
    Look,their real identities as Propagators shows up when their are possessed.X uses all their potentialities when he possess them.
    Their sorceress abilities come from the fact that they are Propagators.
    Look, sorceress ability came from an ancient sorcerer named Hyne which I have shown how he is related to Yu Yevon. All sorceress received a fragement of his powers and is defined as his "descendant
    " unless the game creators are in for an April Fool Joke when April had long passed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Esthar
    The transformations we see in the game were parcial though.
    If they transform tottally we would see them in the form of Propagators.
    Too bad they dun and they can't and we dun have Squall having a limit break called "Transform to Propagators". and I dun see any transformations in the game.
    Last edited by Christmas; 07-18-2005 at 02:28 PM.

  6. #111

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    Word.

    "NPC: Sorry this house is sealed off because of Blight"

  7. #112
    Funkadelic Jammer crazybayman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future Esthar
    You werenīt on the forums these days were you?
    Julia donīt die.Deling made it look like she was dead but she was not.He uses media to confuse people.
    Julia became Edea which is Ulti.
    Dude, don't quote this as if its true. Its complete bull$hit. If you think its true, fine, but don't spread it as if it is a fact. People will only get confused.
    WICKED-AWESOME SIG.

  8. #113
    My dream will never fade! MoonZapdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora_sword
    however
    what is the reason that rinoa turned evil?
    Maybe she just freaked out. :rolleyes2

  9. #114
    Funkadelic Jammer crazybayman's Avatar
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    Thank-you Finalbob42. Hopefully FE will see that his theories are completely ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by FinalBob42
    * In the game's ending FMV, the image of Ultimecia's face flashes quickly over Rinoa's face three times. This is the only FMV footage of Ultimecia in the entire game. However, it comes in a hallucination that contains a number of bizarre and unexplained images.
    So does anyone have any ideas to what that could mean? (And no, R=U will not be accepted as a reasonable answer ). Maybe Ultimecia is a decendant of Rhinoa?

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Esthar
    You werenīt on the forums these days were you?
    Julia donīt die.Deling made it look like she was dead but she was not.He uses media to confuse people.
    Julia became Edea which is Ulti.
    Dude, don't quote this as if its true. Its complete bull$hit. If you think its true, fine, but don't spread it as if it is a fact. People will only get confused.
    WICKED-AWESOME SIG.

  10. #115
    Gobbledygook! Recognized Member Christmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazybayman
    Maybe Ultimecia is a decendant of Rhinoa?
    If that is the case, Squall murdered his own bloodline since we presume Rinoa will marry Squall in the end? Or if Rinoa didn't marry Squall and married other random person, she is still involved in murdering her own bloodline(Great, Great---------Grand daugther maybe?).

    How sad...what tragedy .....

    Oh well, who cares. It is just a game and it is every man for himself.

    To Future: As for the PM, I will reply later. Sorry.
    Last edited by Christmas; 07-18-2005 at 03:45 PM.

  11. #116
    Funkadelic Jammer crazybayman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unknowns
    Quote Originally Posted by crazybayman
    Maybe Ultimecia is a decendant of Rhinoa?
    If that is the case, Squall murdered his own bloodline since we presume Rinoa will marry Squall in the end? Or if Rinoa didn't marry Squall and married other random person, she is still involved in murdering her own bloodline(Great, Great---------Grand daugther maybe?).

    How sad...what tragedy .....

    Oh well, who cares. It is just a game and it is every man for himself.
    Since they are immediately sent to the future through TC, they would have no idea that Ulti is their own bloodline (they didn't exactly find Ulti's family tree, and trace it back to their time before fighting her, eh? )

    I'm not saying its true........it just crossed my mind. I'm curious to see what everyone else thinks of that (Ultimecia's face flashing over Rhinoa's in the end).
    WICKED-AWESOME SIG.

  12. #117
    Gobbledygook! Recognized Member Christmas's Avatar
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    Squall and Co doesn't know it but the murdering of the same bloodline event still take place even if no one knew it. So it is still a tragedy.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazybayman
    I'm not saying its true........it just crossed my mind. I'm curious to see what everyone else thinks of that (Ultimecia's face flashing over Rhinoa's in the end).
    Ya, it really strange, why not Edea, Ellone or anyone but Ultimecia? My guess is that it is Ultimecia's last attempt to break Squall's mind and take him along with her by casting some soft of spell which cause a mental breakdown, and that is why Squall see her in those images then he fainted.

    Of course, it is just a guess though....

  13. #118

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    Unknowns,I was just referring to the information section of the tutorial.

    Dear friends.Canīt you see that Ulti is Edea?
    Was sorceress Adel even at Edeaīs house?
    If Ulti=Rinoa,Ulti would die when she killīs Rinoa.
    There is only Edea left.
    And of the four sorceresses,Edea,Rinoa,Quistis and Selphie Edea is what is left (the others fight Ulti).
    Edea donīt fight Ulti.So she is the only one who could be Ulti.
    We can even see the White Seed and THEIR SHIP.
    Yeah,you can see the White Seed Ship there.It was destroyed by Ulti but it is there.I can tell you where it is if you donīt find it.
    Edeaīs castle was on the past not the future.
    Squall even remembers it (yeah,he remembers at least the location of the master room).
    Last edited by Future Esthar; 07-18-2005 at 08:39 PM.
    Flo:Honey,the clock is late.Go out fix it.
    Mayor Dobe:What hours is it?
    Flo: 15:30
    Mayor Dobe:Hey do you wanna to send the Estharians to Centra or what?
    Flo:Ok,let it be on 3:45

    Images removed for being utterly colossal. Please use images that conform to the size limit.

    Regards,
    Big D

  14. #119
    *~Black Rose Immortal~* Rini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future Esthar
    Dear friends.Canīt you see that Ulti is Edea?
    Why can't you try for once think that Ulti could just as possibly be just Ulti? Or at least try holding to ONE theory instead of making up another when the previous one is proven wrong (just a while ago you were still saying Julia=Ultimecia)
    So she has some similarities in appearance than other sorceresses or people. So what? In real world there are a lot of people who look like someone else, doesn't mean that they ARE the exact same person.

    Was sorceress Adel even at Edeaīs house?
    If Ulti=Rinoa,Ulti would die when she killīs Rinoa.
    There is only Edea left.
    And of the four sorceresses,Edea,Rinoa,Quistis and Selphie Edea is what is left (the others fight Ulti).
    Edea donīt fight Ulti.So she is the only one who could be Ulti.
    A lot of other people don't fight Ultimecia at the end either, so does that make them Ulti along with Edea? No. I'm not even going to ask where you get the idea of Quistis and Selphie being sorceresses...

    We can even see the White Seed and THEIR SHIP.
    Yeah,you can see the White Seed Ship there.It was destroyed by Ulti but it is there.I can tell you where it is if you donīt find it.
    Upon entering to the yard where you find the SeeD bodies, Squall says: "Future SeeD... We fight her across generations..." which means that through the present of squall and friends until the future time of Ultimecia, SeeD battle sorceresses and are aware of the fact that one day a sorceress called Ultimecia will try to conquer the world (of course through squall's time's historics the information passes through to the next generation and so on). The White SeeD ship might still be in condition in the future, so why not the future seed use it, even without Edea? They might have another leader at that time.
    Now someone might say "what about the gardens, shouldn't they exist too if ragnarok is there too?" Now I haven't checked and can't remember if any of the gardens are visible in the world map, but it's possible that Ultimecia has destroyed them, knowing that they exist only to kill the sorceress. "then why not destroy the white seed ship?" It's said in the game that the White SeeD are very cautious and don't remain in the same place for long. that's why it's so hard to find them in the first place. so maybe they've stayed hidden from ulti until the "final" attack.
    I haven't seen it yet though o.o could you pass a screenshot or something to show just where it is?

    Edeaīs castle was on the past not the future.
    Squall even remembers it (yeah,he remembers at least the location of the master room).
    Edea does not have a castle, unless you refer to the orphanage. It's the only "castle" in the present time where Edea lives (at least after disc 2 ending :P).

    And if you're referring to Ultimecia's castle, it IS in the future. It's clearly stated in the game dialogue. "Ultimecia lives far in the future, so far in time where none of us couldn't logically exist." So it's future where they go through time.
    And how does Squall "remember" the master room?

    Oh and btw Future Esthar, just for fun, take a look at these fanshrines I found (a few of them quite popular, at least to my knowledge). Some interesting info you might not have known. Maybe some things might look more clear to you...
    http://www.balamb.org/ultimecia/
    http://rinoa.nu/rinoa/
    http://www.geocities.com/feared_sorceress/indexx.html
    http://tifa.nu/julia/frame.html
    http://www.meoworks.com/ellone/little.html
    http://www.balamb.org/others/
    Last edited by Rini; 07-18-2005 at 11:19 PM.

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  15. #120
    Pat Fenguin Xaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rini
    Quote Originally Posted by Future Esthar
    Dear friends.Canīt you see that Ulti is Edea?
    Why can't you try for once think that Ulti could just as possibly be just Ulti? Or at least try holding to ONE theory instead of making up another when the previous one is proven wrong (just a while ago you were still saying Julia=Ultimecia)
    He says that Julia is Edea who is Ultimecia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rini
    I'm not even going to ask where you get the idea of Quistis and Selphie being sorceresses...
    He made that one up a while ago. I don't remember if it was in this thread or one of the other two.

    As for Squall "remembering" where Ultimecia(/Edea/Julia)'s room is, even I could tell by the look and location of the room that she was inside. Even the menu says that the location is the master room.

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