about the origin of ultimecia (big big spoiler)

[Rini]

Dear friends.Can´t you see that Ulti is Edea?

Why can't you try for once think that Ulti could just as possibly be just Ulti? Or at least try holding to ONE theory instead of making up another when the previous one is proven wrong (just a while ago you were still saying Julia=Ultimecia)

He says that Julia is Edea who is Ultimecia.

I'm not even going to ask where you get the idea of Quistis and Selphie being sorceresses...

He made that one up a while ago. I don't remember if it was in this thread or one of the other two.

As for Squall "remembering" where Ultimecia(/Edea/Julia)'s room is, even I could tell by the look and location of the room that she was inside. Even the menu says that the location is the master room.

Aaa... okay I get it now. Yeah I also realized when I first looked at the place that it is THE room where she waits. But I thought FE referred to Squall as a character remembering the place from before or something...

[Christmas]

Dear friends.Can´t you see that Ulti is Edea?

Nope. can't. ANYONE OF YOU OUT THERE CAN? IF CAN, PLS ANSWER!!!!

Was sorceress Adel even at Edea´s house?

So what if she is even at Edea's house or not?

If Ulti=Rinoa,Ulti would die when she kill´s Rinoa.

But she never "killed" her and at the most knock out her which can be revived by our friendly neighbourhood item Phoenix down.

There is only Edea left.
And of the four sorceresses,Edea,Rinoa,Quistis and Selphie Edea is what is left (the others fight Ulti).
Edea don´t fight Ulti.So she is the only one who could be Ulti.

Ellone also dun fight Ultimecia too, not to forget Xu, the "Queen" in the CC group, the library girl and etc. And they can all be sorceress who knows?

We can even see the White Seed and THEIR SHIP.
Yeah,you can see the White Seed Ship there.It was destroyed by Ulti but it is there.I can tell you where it is if you don´t find it.
Edea´s castle was on the past not the future.
Squall even remembers it (yeah,he remembers at least the location of the master room).

If Edea's castle is the orphanage you refering to, then let me tell you the layout of the orphanage is totally different from Ulti's castle and there is no way Squall can rememeber anything.

[Future Esthar]

Let´s even consider that Ulti uses the "absorbed into time" thingy.
And then revives Rinoa.But that would be a time loop.But it didn´t make sence.The loop would had to have a beggining somewhere.Even the one in which Ulti passed her powers to Rinoa had a beggining.

So what if she is even at Edea's house or not?

If she wasn´t at Edea´s house she was not Ulti.Duh.

Ellone also dun fight Ultimecia too, not to forget Xu, the "Queen" in the CC group, the library girl and etc. And they can all be sorceress who knows?

There is no real basis to say that(except Ellone which is Rinoa).
With more accuracy I can show you that Quistis and Selphie were sorceresses.

If Edea's castle is the orphanage you refering to, then let me tell you the layout of the orphanage is totally different from Ulti's castle and there is no way Squall can rememeber anything.

.

I believe Edea´s house is a ruin of a part of Ulti´s Castle.

[Squall of SeeD]

I believe Edea´s house is a ruin of a part of Ulti´s Castle.

You do know that her house was beneath the Castle, right?

[Christmas]

Let´s even consider that Ulti uses the "absorbed into time" thingy.
And then revives Rinoa.But that would be a time loop.But it didn´t make sence.The loop would had to have a beggining somewhere.Even the one in which Ulti passed her powers to Rinoa had a beggining.

The loop begin when Ultimecia passed her powers to Edea.

And also I am neutral to the theory of R=U cause I am a simple minded person who think Ultimecia is just some random sorceress that received her powers in the future maybe passed down by Rinoa...

If she wasn´t at Edea´s house she was not Ulti.Duh.

Sorceress that had been to Edea's house had a probabilty of being Ultimecia? Where do you get this idea?

There is no real basis to say that(except Ellone which is Rinoa).
With more accuracy I can show you that Quistis and Selphie were sorceresses.

You say the whole "family line" theory and propagators based soley on your own deduction and also have no basis which you still can't prove a lot of things asked in other poll just like mine.

I believe Edea´s house is a ruin of a part of Ulti´s Castle.

The two place look entirely different and even so, it is just a PART of Ulti's Castle and may I know which part? And if you say it is the Master Room may I ask in which way it is similar? Both have Doors???

[Future Esthar]

Sorceress that had been to Edea's house had a probabilty of being Ultimecia? Where do you get this idea?

By Edea´s house I mean an area around the house.There is no proof that Sorceress Adel went to that area.So she can´t be Ulti.As I said Ulti´s time was on the past,not the future.

The two place look entirely different and even so, it is just a PART of Ulti's Castle and may I know which part? And if you say it is the Master Room may I ask in which way it is similar? Both have Doors???

That´s exactly what I thought Edea´s house is.The Master Room of Ulti´s Castle.And the tower is the lighthouse.I am thinking of something NOW.Maybe Ulti´s castle is buried.It get´s buried due to the geological disasters happening during the Lunar Cry.And Ulti managed to change it to deceive people.
This is actually a proof that Ulti lives on a far past.
Wanna to see how will you proof me wrong now.

[bipper]

I found this lying around the internet and thought i would post it here. The boys (or girls (or rabid alien subspicies?)) there really post good infor on games

Again - i take 0 credit for this post - just finding it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimecia

Rinoa becomes a sorceress partway through the game. Sorceresses in the world of Final Fantasy VIII are prone to becoming evil and wreaking terrible destruction; at the time of the game, the world is just recovering from a conflict known as "the Sorceress War." Concerned, Rinoa goes to Edea Kramer, a former sorceress herself, for advice. Edea explains that sorceresses can easily become corrupted by their power, but that this can be avoided by relying on the support of friends. In particular, Edea advises Rinoa to find a knight who can offer her emotional support. Rinoa's love interest, Squall Leonhart, volunteers to be her knight.

Based on this conversation, one theory suggests that Ultimecia is actually a future version of Rinoa, driven mad by grief after Squall's death, who intends to compress time as a way of regaining her beloved. The theory is attractive because it provides Ultimecia with the depth, background, and motivation that many felt she lacked. However, all the alleged evidence for the theory is highly debatable, and it remains purely speculative. The most commonly cited arguments for the theory are discussed below.

* Edea looks significantly younger than her husband, Cid Kramer. Based on this, many players believe that sorceresses do not age. If this is true, Rinoa would almost inevitably outlive her "knight," leading to her becoming evil. However, the game actually makes it clear that sorceresses do in fact age - Edea was five years old when she became a sorceress, but is clearly an adult at the time of the game. It is possible that sorceresses age more slowly than ordinary humans, or that they age until adulthood and then stop. If this is true, though, then it seems extremely unusual that no one in the game - especially Edea herself - ever mentions it.

* Proponents of the theory often claim that Rinoa and Ultimecia have the same facial structure. However, this is highly subjective; many see no resemblance, or point out other characters in the game who look more alike.

* The theory's advocates often argue that the game says a sorceress must die in order to pass on her powers. Rinoa received her powers from Edea, yet Edea did not die. This mystery surrounding the source of Rinoa's powers is often used to suggest that somehow Rinoa must be Ultimecia. However, this argument is based on a misinterpretation. The game does not say a sorceress must die to pass on her powers; rather, it says that a sorceress must pass on her powers before she can die peacefully, which is not the same thing.

* Ultimecia has black feathered wings on her back. Rinoa has a design suggesting white angel's wings on the back of her duster, and ghostly white wings appear on her back when she goes into Angelwing, one of her limit breaks. However, Edea also has black feathers on her gown, and the Sorceress Adel has a wing-like structure on her back, so it's possible that wings are simply a symbol associated with sorceresses in general, rather than any particular sorceress.

* While on the Ragnarok with Squall, Rinoa says that she wishes time would stand still. Opponents of the theory point out that time, memory, and the importance of moving forward rather than clinging to the past are all major themes in the game, and that it's therefore not surprising if multiple characters voice similar sentiments.

* Rinoa and Squall promise one another that if they are ever separated, they will meet in the field of flowers next to Edea's cottage. Ultimecia's castle is located near the cottage, and proponents of the theory suggest that Ultimecia placed her palace there due to her hopes of finding Squall through time compression. Those opposed to the theory say this is simply coincidence, and point out that the castle must be located near the field of flowers to make possible the romantic scene in which Rinoa finds Squall there after the final battle.

* After becoming a sorceress, Rinoa worries about the possibility that she will become evil and her friends will be forced to fight her; "Squall's sword will pierce my heart," she says. Advocates of the theory interpret this as foreshadowing.

* Squall has a ring and pendant with the image of a stylized lion that he calls "Griever." He gives the ring to Rinoa during the game. In the final battle, Ultimecia summons a powerful Guardian Force - a winged lion named Griever. Some fans suggest that Ultimecia actually obtained Griever from Squall's ring; another GF in the game, Doomtrain, is obtained through an item called the Solomon Ring. However, this argument is contradicted by the original Japanese-language version of the game, which makes it clear that Ultimecia actually draws Griever from within Squall's mind.

* In the game's ending FMV, the image of Ultimecia's face flashes quickly over Rinoa's face three times. This is the only FMV footage of Ultimecia in the entire game. However, it comes in a hallucination that contains a number of bizarre and unexplained images.

* The junctioning of GFs has the side effect of causing severe long-term memory loss. Proponents of the theory invoke this fact to explain why Ultimecia would attempt to kill Squall, her long-lost love, when he confronts her. However, while GFs do cause loss of conscious memories, it is clear that the memories are not completely destroyed, and that emotional reactions based on the lost memories remain. Squall's rivalry with Seifer and Quistis' crush on Squall are both caused by childhood events that Squall and Quistis have forgotten due to their GF use. However, Ultimecia shows no reaction at all to meeting either Squall or Rinoa. This fact is perhaps the strongest argument against the theory; the love story between Rinoa and Squall is a major focus of the game, and it seems highly unlikely that a future version of Rinoa would not react in some way to meeting her lost love.

Opponents of the theory point to an editorial posted on SquareX, the writer of which claims to have spoken with an unnamed source at Square who denies the connection. The veracity of this account, and the identity of the source, are unclear, and proponents of the theory have expressed doubts as to its authenticity.

--------
There ya have it... nothing solved! But now that what final fantasy is all about- leaving loose ends. (Er was i should say...damn sequals )
bip

Tucked this way back in the forums. I just wanted to point out that rinoa is increadibly weak and melodramatic without her friends - as she will be in the future before she becames ulti!

Also, the one angel with white wings taking the power of all the sorceresses?... hrm.. bearing all the evil or what not (sins) seems like another Passion to me

[Squall of SeeD]

Sorceress that had been to Edea's house had a probabilty of being Ultimecia? Where do you get this idea?

By Edea´s house I mean an area around the house.There is no proof that Sorceress Adel went to that area.So she can´t be Ulti.As I said Ulti´s time was on the past,not the future.

No one has said that Adel is Ultimecia, Future....

The two place look entirely different and even so, it is just a PART of Ulti's Castle and may I know which part? And if you say it is the Master Room may I ask in which way it is similar? Both have Doors???

That´s exactly what I thought Edea´s house is.The Master Room of Ulti´s Castle.And the tower is the lighthouse.I am thinking of something NOW.Maybe Ulti´s castle is buried.It get´s buried due to the geological disasters happening during the Lunar Cry.And Ulti managed to change it to deceive people.

You do realize that the lighthouse is not nearly that huge, right? And that Edea's house looks nothing like the Master Room? And that -- as I said earlier, but which you ignored -- Edea's House is beneath Ultimecia's Castle in the future?

This is actually a proof that Ulti lives on a far past. Wanna to see how will you proof me wrong now.

Because the game said so. There's proof enough. Also, if you'll recall, once Time Compression was initiated, the group had to focus on where they wanted to go, so unless you're telling us that they were too absent-minded to think about where they wanted to go and just got where they needed to be by luck, you've got no argument. You have no proof of anything. You know this. You've admitted to this. You yourself have admitted that your "theories" no more fit the canon storyline of this game than does random FanFiction.

Really, go argue with Kazushige Nojima, the writer, and tell him that the storyline he wove is wrong. First, he'll ask how you got in his house, and second he'll tell you to stay the smurf away from him while he phones the police. While you're waiting for them to arrive and escort you away, provided he's calm enough, I imagine he'd be more than happy to tell you that you're wrong.

Honestly, Future, this stuff doesn't "fit" the storyline of Final Fantasy VIII. You're talking as though what we see in the game was a skeleton of a story and that you're "fleshing it out." That's not how it works. The story we're shown in game is the fleshed-out story. Once again, the story was written with a specific intent in mind and the story itself is used to convey that intent. Take a writing class or something.

[bipper]

Realistically, Rinoa can't be Ulti. Remember what the doc in Back to the future says? I cant phrase it but if a person sees their future self - vs thier past self - BOOM - the galaxy unfolds -or- they feint. Luckily the docs second theory was right, and they merely feint.

Neither nor of these events happened - therefore it cannot be true.
But squall does smile and nothing ominous happens eaither... hrm...

Bipper goes

Yes, I do agree that Luke Skywaker was the evilest jedi ever:
My friend is trying to convince me
that any contractors working on the
uncompleted Death Star were innocent
victims when the space station was
destroyed by the rebels.
-RANDAL -clerks

[Christmas]

By Edea´s house I mean an area around the house.There is no proof that Sorceress Adel went to that area.So she can´t be Ulti.As I said Ulti´s time was on the past,not the future.

Now Ulti's time is in the past instead of the future..and BTW, there is also no proof that Adel didn't went to that area either.

That´s exactly what I thought Edea´s house is.The Master Room of Ulti´s Castle.And the tower is the lighthouse.I am thinking of something NOW.

Ya.Maybe,Ulti changed every single spot of the orphanage into her castle which look no way similar to the orphanage so how do Squall remember anything when it is no way similar to the orphanage.

Maybe Ulti´s castle is buried.It get´s buried due to the geological disasters happening during the Lunar Cry.And Ulti managed to change it to deceive people

And why didn't Ultimecia get buried along with her precious castle? And for this Maybe this Maybe that, why can't you make up your mind?

This is actually a proof that Ulti lives on a far past.
Wanna to see how will you proof me wrong now.

The proof you spoke of is only support by your deductions and nothing else. I could also say you owned me 1 million bucks and the proof is my words and my story and I could still say Ellone, Xu, Library girl and company could be Ultimecia since they could be sorceress and could have went to Edea's house and if you want to say I have no basis or anything, speak for yourself. (below)

You say the whole "family line" theory and propagators based soley on your own deduction and also have no basis which you still can't prove a lot of things asked in other poll just like mine.

And to Bipper. the info that you got from some website is exactly the SAME as the one on the previous page of this thread.......

[bipper]

Once again you are correct unkowns. And there is actaully solid proof! Oh well /shrug sorry for posting again

[Future Esthar]

To Squall of Seed:
1-We can´t see Edea´s house on the future.I just see some stange undefined wall that looks like a monster(don´t know what it is up to this day,but it´s not Edea´s house for sure).
2-The lighthouse looks small because we see it at a distance.We can even see a slope that gives access to it.
3-Ulti performs magic and it´s not difficult to turn the Master Room into Edea´s house.The master room has that curved triangular ceiling like Edea´s house(in this case there is no curveness).
4-Ulti was possessed and she turns her beatiful castle into a creppy one.And then when X wanna to pretend she was not he changed Ulti´s appearance to Edea´s and brought the creppy castle to normal.
5-I believe all the storyline is thruth.All the facts and graphical details were thruth.I believe that the characters say what they say.The difference is in the way I interpret it.We can either interpret it litteraly(i.e assume all the characters are telling the thruth and all events were what they seem) or non literally (i.e interpret that not all characters tell the thruth and some events or graphical details can be manipulated even though they were there).How many times do I have to say that?

To Unknowns:

1-Squall remembers the events before Time Compression and the ones in Time Compression at the orphanage.
Before time compression Squall had being in love for Rinoa,Ulti´s daughter.That way he meets Ulti and her castle.I think Ulti was not possessed at this time.Then Ulti was possessed along with Seifer,an era later,Rinoa and Squall were possessed,another era later Quistis and Zell were possessed,and yet another year later Selphie and Irvine were possessed.Then they were accursed and become ONE and powerful sorceress which rests many years and at the right time ruled over Galbadia from Timber.Their powers also crossed into a great sorceress power.
But before Rinoa was possessed she and Squall were to promise.
But she accidentally used her ablity which deceived her into think that she has already promised (confused her memory with what she sees in her visions).They were to promise.It was destiny.So she then sends her counscience through space because she went to the flower field but don´t find Squall.Then accidentaly it goes to many different eras.She is looking for Squall.She then starts to paint some of her visions on the art gallery.
X knows it and decides to send his/her consciousness to the past again.
In Ulti´s body X sees the paintings on the gallery and his/her suspicions get confirmed.
It is here that X performs Time Compression.
Through this X changes the destiny of Squall & company.
Instead of being a dinasty of Centra kings they all were get to an orphanage on Ulti´s time (a little later).
Then she uses a pawn to construct a military academy so she can control SeeD(SorcErEss Dinasty),She then make them fall into a trap on Galbadia and they were sent to a prision sealed against Elle´s powers where she wanna to made them lose memory,possess them and accurse them as she does before Time Compression.Fortunately she fails this time and they escaped.
It means there is more than one dimension of destiny.There are many possible outcomes for destiny.
And it seems one person living on one of these dimensions can remember everything that happened on other dimensions.
2a-X is the responsible for every Lunar Cry.The Lunar cry is needed for Time Compression to succeed.
2b-Since Ulti was on the master room she don´t get buried.Only the lower parts of the castle were buried.

[crazybayman]

To Squall of Seed:
1-We can´t see Edea´s house on the future.I just see some stange undefined wall that looks like a monster(don´t know what it is up to this day,but it´s not Edea´s house for sure).

That wall is just a barrier that prevents you from entering Edea's house. Its around all the towns, I think (at least I remember seeing it around Balamb, too).

I figure its just to prevent you from entering the towns during compressed time, which the programmers (oh no, logical reasoning!!!!!) probably did, because (a)they didn't want to program the towns during compressed time, maybe due to the fact it would create too many plot-holes, or (b) the towns would be immensly smurfed up due time compression or (c) no more smurfing around with side-quests (hey, maybe Zell would want to get l@id with the library chick in the past, present & future), time to just finish the d@mn game!

Or Retarded Alternate Ending:
Maybe its an explosion at each town and dwelling, that Ultimecia created to destroy all inhabitants of the world.

Or
Maybe its a barrier all the townspeople created to fend off Ultimecia

Or
Maybe Jean-Luc Picard on the USS Enterprise showed up in orbit due to an automatic destress call by the Ragnarok and he's beaming all the towns up to safety

Or
Maybe Osama Bin Laden showed up and fired Nukes at all the towns, so he and Ultimecia can live happily ever after

Or
Maybe its a ruse (like a Ninja's smoke bomb) that all the towns people set, while they dig underground, searching for the lifestream, and the power to defeat Ultimecia

Or
etc
etc
etc......

Something tells me its something along the lines of my first guess

[Wuggly Blight]

The area Edas house is in is part of a larger older people. There is the Ruins nearby and if you did the mini-quest there is ruins in the nearby forest too of another city. Edeas house is far more likley just apart of this nations ruins, thats all.

[liamo]

its just a barrier around all the towns and places that you can visit. there is no real reason given for it in the game. they're just there nothing really much you can do about it.