about the origin of ultimecia (big big spoiler)

[Christmas]

i actually think that Ulticima is the daughter of squall and rinoa,as they do look sorta similar in appearance,but she has some of squalls facial features(well i think,by looking at her face).

Not possible as daughter considering the time Ultimecia live in..maybe great-great....grand daughter.

which was how the sorceress hyne actually died, at the hands of ulticima,

She killed Hyne? From my research, no one ever seen Hyne after he gave a bit of his powers to the mortals. But look at this, Ultimecia received a part of Hyne's powers and even she did some research and increase her powers, it will be little possibily she can overcome Hyne by herself since it is Hyne that give her the powers. Of course, the human overcome Hyne in history but only by unity of the entire human race against a rouge sorceror that is but they never manage to kill him.

and also elimintaing the solomon family which had some sort of great power,but she overlooked it and discared their coat of arms (Solomon ring).

The solomon ring really play a tiny part in the game and it is just an optional item. But why do it came in the form of a train and why it is just so nice that it is in the tear points?

After modifing history to her liking she fixed it so that she could try and stop her own birth to prevent her pain and suffering.
well those are some theories that i'm still not to sure about, and i'll probably get flamed for it,but i'm posting my veiws.

This one is my favourite, Look, when we have regrets, we all hope that it will go away and even you manage to forget it, the scar in the heart will alway be there. The only way to eliminate regrets is never to let regrets happen in the first place. Make sense though... (and I am not FLAMING you..)

[Future Esthar]

So what if Ultimecia had a painting of Julia on her wall? What if she was just a big fan of hers? You know, because Julia was the famous singer in the past, maybe she was good enough for Ulti to like her music
Think about that.

Julia with a crown?
No,it makes more sense that the woman in the picture is a queen of the castle who make a picture of herself.
Ulti is certainly the queen.
A descendant?A parent?
Since she wears red I prefer to think she is Julia.
But I may be wrong.
Maybe she is a descendant or something.
But if all queens were supposed to wear red why name the picture "Red clothes" if this was not a special characteristic of one of the queens but common to all of them.
As I stated in another thread Edea was the first sorceress.At Ultima´s time no other sorceress were born yet so their pictures can not be there in the art gallery.Just Ulti´s.That proofs she was the first queen.

[Christmas]

There is also other pictures in the gallery if you want to talk about pictures here. Since you only explain three, care explaining the rest?

INTERVIGILIUM (Sleep)
JUDICIUM (Judgment)
IGNUS (Fire)
VIVIDARIUM (Garden)
INANDANTIA (Flood)
VIATOR (Messenger)
INAUDAX (Cowardice)
XIPHIAS (Swordfish)
XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road)

[Future Esthar]

Sleep-Refers to Ellone´s ability.But further details are unclear to me.
Judgement-A symbolic picture created by Ellone(Ulti´s daughter) stating that the Lunar Cry will happen through Lunatic Pandora on Centra.LP is symbolized by a flying monster.The impact freezes the Trabia region.
Fire-The fire cavern has somekind of a vulcan inside.It erupts burning part of the Trabia region.The ice turns into water and flood the region that is presently around FH.
Garden-This is some garden that exists far from Ulti´s castle.Ellone see´s the future and sees that this garden will become Esthar.Thus she paint this.
Flood-See "Fire".
Messenger-This can refer to many things.To Ellone,to Selphie,to the communications tower,etc..
Looking at the picture we see a messenger bird flying from the top of a big house.I think we can see a polerope over the house and the bird coming from it.It sugest that it is the comm tower.
Cowardy-It´s difficult to see what is in the picture but looking at the name it can symbolize either Zell either X.I believe this the picture that most worries X.Ellone saw X.
Swordfish-I am no sure.This could refer to Squall or Seifer or the badamb fish.I would bet is the badamb fish but then the sword thingy is related to what? no clues.
Tree-line-road-Refers to the horizon bridge.It´s possible that the horizon bridge was created by the centra civilization and then remodelled to a modern-like bridge.
Or this was just something Ellone sees on the future and decides to paint using a medieval bridge as a symbol.

[Christmas]

Alright, it seem like that you really are clueless when I ask about the picture thingy.

Dun you get it? You say the first three pictures you mentioned earlier in the game has BACKING on why Ultimecia is Julia but now the other pictures had absolutely NOTHING RELATED with your theory. So why do they put all this picture in one room if only THREE is to prove your theory while the others has absolutely nothing to do with it?

And for your explaination of the pictures, others can also come up other form of explainations to it as each one's views varies. That is why sometime artists grew a bunch of "unknown thingy" and people start to speculate and come up with ideas of their own.

For example of how one views varies:

Sleep: The Sleep magic in the game
Flood: A flooding near Trabia (See the ice mountains and all this?)
Judgement: Alexandria's Holy Judgement
Fire: The fire rage by the monsters dropped from the moon. (See the moon in the picture)

And etc....

Lastly, how do you explain the final picture which say: "In a garden sleep a messenger"

Garden-This is some garden that exists far from Ulti´s castle.Ellone see´s the future and sees that this garden will become Esthar.Thus she paint this.
Sleep-Refers to Ellone´s ability.But further details are unclear to me
Messenger-This can refer to many things.To Ellone,to Selphie,to the communications tower,etc..

How will you interpret this?

[Future Esthar]

Maybe all the pictures were symbolic but were based on events happening on Ulti´s time.
For example a prophet can have a vision in which he sees a car.A XX century car.
But he can decide to make a picture in which there is a medieval car to represent his vision.And maybe this car his near him and he uses it as a model to represent what he sees on his visions.

The great picture-I would love to interpret it.The image don´t help too much.But I think it is either saying Elle appears on Winhill or that X lives on the "garden" where he is safe so he can sleep well.I prefer the last interpretation.This explains why Ulti worries to make the title blurry.
Obviously one can be deceived by the fact that Edea could be the messenger since she is the first to tell about Ulti and the future(and when we look at the picture...).
But X purposedly make it look true by possessing Edea and then pretending she was not possessed anymore.
Elle made a picture of a city using the patterns she knows on her medieval time.She wasn´t able to paint the city in it´s real form because she knows nothing about futuristic technology.I grant you the picture didn´t refer to Edea´s house.Elle were able to make a most accurate painting of the city using flowers.

[Christmas]

[QUOTE=Future Esthar]Maybe all the pictures were symbolic but were based on events happening on Ulti´s time

Symbolic in a way that all picture represent individual events and not inter related like you say? If they are inter related, why only the three picture and not all?

For example a prophet can have a vision in which he sees a car.A XX century car.
But he can decide to make a picture in which there is a medieval car to represent his vision.And maybe this car his near him and he uses it as a model to represent what he sees on his visions.

Now, maybe other prophet see a ZZ century car but he happen to see the car that is near the first prophet who see the XX century car. So he also use the same car to represent his visions.

See what I mean? The picture might have the same outcome but different interpretations through the eyes of others.

The great picture-I would love to interpret it.The image don´t help too much.But I think it is either saying Elle appears on Winhill or that X lives on the "garden" where he is safe so he can sleep well.I prefer the last interpretation.This explains why Ulti worries to make the title blurry.
Obviously one can be deceived by the fact that Edea could be the messenger since she is the first to tell about Ulti and the future(and when we look at the picture...).
But X purposedly make it look true by possessing Edea and then pretending she was not possessed anymore.
Elle made a picture of a city using the patterns she knows on her medieval time.She wasn´t able to paint the city in it´s real form because she knows nothing about futuristic technology.I grant you the picture didn´t refer to Edea´s house.Elle were able to make a most accurate painting of the city using flowers.

Look, your interpretation has no direct linkage to your theory of Ultimecia is Julia but just some random event.

[greiver]

there is no freakin' way that ultimecia and rhinoa are the same person. ultimecia has an accent and rhinoa doesn't. and because rhinoa isn't ultimecia it makes no sense for squall to be greiver.also julia doesn't have an accent either. they also look nothing a like.

did any one stop to think that ultimecia mught be a collector of fine art.they could just be there and not be symbolic. they probably had no relation o the story other than sqare wanted to make more references to the gardens (the messesnger sleeps in the garden).

EDIT: Use the edit button instead of double posting. -Murder

[Future Esthar]

Who said they must all be related to Julia?They dont.They were different events.Some of them happens on Ulti´s time like Xerampelinae,Venus and Vigil and others were painted by Elle representing her visions.

[Christmas]

they also look nothing a like.

This is something to prove what is wrong in your theory through graphical details you are talking about.

did any one stop to think that ultimecia mught be a collector of fine art.they could just be there and not be symbolic. they probably had no relation o the story other than sqare wanted to make more references to the gardens (the messesnger sleeps in the garden).

From what I analysis from him, there is no such things as a simple stone lying on the floor with no specific purpose but a stone that might be a legendary treasure passed down centuries ago.

[greiver]

exactly the pictures could just be acient valueble treasures
ultimecia is powerful and wealthy wealthy ppl like to flaunt there riches with big houses, or castles in this case , they also display artworks that are valuble or rare

p.s. i like tonberrys

[Future Esthar]

..and many times made pictures of themselves to show that they are beautiful.Especially if they are queens.
"Whatever" members always uses excuses to say one´s theories is wrong.
They are close minded.
They need to start to see the context of things and think in terms of the whole thing.
Ironically many of these members have played near all FF´s from 1 to 11 but don´t know Square well enough to see they don´t create things for nothing.For them(Square) almost everything needs to have a purpose.I just played 7 and 8 and already perceived this.

[Christmas]

Who said they must all be related to Julia?They dont.They were different events.Some of them happens on Ulti´s time like Xerampelinae,Venus and Vigil and others were painted by Elle representing her visions.

So then why are all of them in the same room where only three are inter related? It is too much of a coincidence. Also, I can interpret the three pictures in this way:

Xerampelinae:Ultimecia herself as the queen
Venus: Love is what make the world bleed.(the picture is all red)
Vigil :The guardians that watch over the castle.

And there is also a lot more other ways to interpret way the pictures through the eyes of spectators but only the artist know the real answer.

Ironically many of these members have played near all FF´s from 1 to 11 but don´t know Square well enough to see they don´t create things for nothing.For them(Square) almost everything needs to have a purpose.I just played 7 and 8 and already perceived this

You still haven't perceived anything until you can prove me wrong and put an end to this little debate that lasted for centuries.This thread has somehow turned into a debate between the two of us now.
And you have no proof/basis to claim the other are ignorant.

PS: I am off to sleep now and will contiune tommorrow....btw, nice debating with you, it really make my brain function better.

[General-Beatrix]

I don't think Rinoa's and Ultimecia's hair look similar at all. Not only it's not the same colour, but Ulty has a widow's peak if I recall well, and Rinoa's hairline looks quite different.

Granted, she COULD have changed her appearance, but even there, just because they look similar does not mean that R=U.

Well let's look at Edea, Ultimecia did possess her and when Rinoa tried to give Edea the thing the Dr. Odine made, Edea instantly changed the length of her hair. Which means that sorceresses can possibly change their apperence but wouldn't waste their time doing that.

[greiver]

square doesn't dothings for no reasons but some times they aren't always related to that part of the plot. you all should know that the messeger sleeps in the garden refers to SeeD. SeeDs are the messagers of justice and they are trained in the garden waitng to fufill there main purpose which is combatting the sorceress. also how do we kno that ultimecia's castle didn't belong to someone else and she just took it and claimed it as her own.