Recently, the question of the exact nature of a connection between Tidus and Shuyin has become a popular topic for discussion in the FFX-2 Forum. Unfortunately, FFX-2 itself does not do a good job of explicating this question. In this thread, I hope to, as far as I am able, elucidate the matter of any relationship between Tidus and Shuyin, and explore any pertinent details regarding the issue.
Shuyin, in effect, is first introduced to the gamer in FFX-2, when Yuna mistakes him for Tidus while viewing a Sphere.
When the gamer actually views the Sphere, he or she sees a young man that looks startlingly similar to Tidus. At this early stage of the game, it would hardly be unreasonable to assume that it is, in fact, actually Tidus.Yuna: (narrating) It all began when I saw this sphere of you. At least,
it looked like you. I couldn't say for sure. I thought I might find more spheres
like it if I joined the Gullwings. So I did.
Quite clearly, such information suggests that Shuyin bears an uncanny resemblance to Tidus; this is more than mere similarity of features. A comparison of the graphical depictions of Tidus and Shuyin confirms this; though slightly different, even their clothing is similar.
Further, when Yuna, Rikku, and Paine battle Shuyin at the end of FFX-2, we see that Shuyin’s named techniques are virtually identical to Tidus’ Overdrives from FFX. Spinning Cut is Spiral Cut; Run & Slash is Slice and Dice; Force Rain is Energy Rain; Terror of Zanarkand is Blitz Ace. Even if one supposes that Shuyin’s physical similarity to Tidus was a plot contrivance, meant only to set the story in motion, we still reach an impasse with regards to this question. As such, I will begin my analysis by suggesting that, more than merely being an introductory plot device, the physical resemblance between the two characters was a deliberate decision made to deepen the gaming experience.
However, while it seems that some connection must exist, most people mistakenly jump to the conclusion that Tidus is either the “Dream” version of Shuyin, or some sort of a reincarnation of Shuyin. This also leads to the line of thought where Yuna is viewed as a reincarnation of Lenne, Shuyin’s lover during the Machina War. A careful analysis of what is immediately apparent about Tidus and Shuyin (as well as Yuna and Lenne) will disprove both of these theories.
Tidus, as is commonly known, was 17 year old during the events of FFX. However, some people have assumed that he is really ~1000 years old, having existed since Zanarkand was destroyed by Sin at the end of the Machina War. This stems from a misunderstanding of dialogue that takes place early in FFX.
Early on, Rikku tells Tidus that Sin destroyed Zanarkand a millennium before the events of FFX.
Rikku: Don't worry, you'll be better in no time. They say your head gets
funny when Sin is near. Maybe you just had some kind of dream?
Tidus: You mean I'm sick?
Rikku: Because of Sin's toxin, yeah.
Tidus: You sure?
Rikku: Yeah, there is no Zanarkand anymore. Sin destroyed it a thousand
years ago. So...no one plays blitzball there.
Tidus: Huh? What you do mean a thousand years ago? But I saw Sin attack
Zanarkand! You're saying that happened a thousand years ago? No way!
Later, after Tidus washes up near Besaid, Wakka confirms Zanarkand’s death long ago.
As a result of this and similar information, many people have assumed that Tidus was thrown ~1000 years forward by his encounter with Sin. However, such is not the case. Dream Zanarkand, summoned by Yu Yevon from within Sin, has basically existed since the “real” Zanarkand was destroyed. While the city itself is relatively static, architecturally unchanging, and with its Aeon citizenry unaware of what lies beyond the waters, its population is static, in flux like any human population found elsewhere in Spira. Time passes in identical fashion in Dream Zanarkand as it does anywhere else; hence, the residents of Dream Zanarkand are born, live out their lives, and eventually die.Tidus: It's true Zanarkand was destroyed, right? A thousand years ago?
So it's just a big pile of rubble now, isn't it?
Wakka: Long time ago, there were a whole lot of cities in Spira. Big
cities with machina-machines-to run 'em. People played all day and let
the machina do the work. And then, well, take a look. Sin came, and
destroyed the machina cities. And Zanarkand along with 'em. Yeah, that
was about a thousand years ago, just like you said.
In-game dialogue supports this idea that time passes in Dream Zanarkand in the same way it should in the rest of Spira.
Man's Voice: I was in the coffee shop, running away from home when I
heard the news. Our hero, Jecht, gone. Vanished into thin air! My dad
must have been his biggest fan. I knew how sad he'd be. Heck, we all
were that day. "Zanar", I say to myself, "What are you thinking?" I went
running straight back home. We sat up talking 'bout Jecht all night. My
dad and I never talked so much. Whoa... Didn't mean to reminisce, folks.
Anyway... Ten years later, the Jecht Memorial Cup tournament is today!
The two teams that have won through to the finals are...of course, the
Abes from A-East, and the Duggles from C-South. I know there's a lot of
people out there today to see the star of the Abes! In just one year,
he's become the team's number one player! He's Jecht's blood, and the
new hope of blitzball! What kind of super play will he show us today?
Will we see father's legendary shot? I don't think I'm the only one
excited here, folks!Realize that Jecht accompanied Braska on his pilgrimage for the Final Aeon. According to the dialogue, ten years have passes in Spira since this event. According to the man from Dream Zanarkand, who calls himself Zanar, ten years have also passed in that place. For every year that passes in Spira, a year passes in Dream Zanarkand. This also suggests the dynamic reality of events there; it does not reset to Jecht again excelling in Blitzball. Rather, the torch has passed to the next generation.Priest: Ten years have passed since Lord Braska became high summoner.
And finally we receive a statue for our temple.
Driving the point home even further, we later observe a discussion between Tidus and Yuna where we are left with no doubt that the times correspond.
Yuna: You're a blitzball player, aren't you? From Zanarkand, right?
Tidus: You hear that from Wakka? Wakka doesn't believe me at all.
Yuna: But I believe you! I've heard, in Zanarkand...there is a great
stadium, all lit up even at night!
Tidus: Huh?
Yuna: Great blitzball tournaments are held there, and the stands are
always full!
Tidus: How do you know that?
Yuna: A man named Jecht told me. He was my father's guardian.
Tidus mumbles "Jecht" to himself in an unhappy way.
Tidus: My father...his name is Jecht!
Yuna: Amazing! You know, our meeting like this must be the blessing of
Yevon!
Tidus: Sounds like him, but it can't be him.
Yuna: Why not?
Tidus: My old man, he died. Ten years ago, off the coast of Zanarkand.
Yuna: I'm sorry.
Tidus: He went out to sea for training one day...and never came back.
And no one's seen him since then.
Yuna: Why, that's the day that Jecht came to Spira. It's true! I first
met Jecht ten years and three months ago! I remember, that was the day
my father left. The date fits, doesn't it?
Furthermore, we repeatedly see that Tidus himself has changed as time has passed. In several instances, we see flashbacks of a young Tidus, a child in Dream Zanarkand.
Jecht: You with a woman? You can't even catch a ball! Oh, what's the
matter? Gonna cry again? Cry, cry. That's the only thing you're good
for!
Young Tidus: I hate you.
Jecht: Huh? What'd you say?Man: But, it's been nearly... It's been nearly a day already.
Woman: Perhaps you could go look for us.
Man: People are searching for him now.
Woman: Thank you.
Young Tidus: Who cares whether he comes back or not?
Woman: But he might die!
Young Tidus: Fine, let him!
Woman: Do you... Do you hate him so?
Young Tidus nods "yes".
Woman: If he dies, you'll never be able to tell him how much you hate
him.
Again, we see the change wrought by time. Ten years ago, Tidus was a child. Presently, he is a young adult.Jecht: See? I told him what I thought of him, right there!
Tidus' Mom: Really?
Jecht: 'Course!
Tidus' Mom: I suppose, but...
Young Tidus: Mommy...
Tidus' Mom: Just a sec, dear.
Thus, while they are dependent upon the fayth and the Summoning within Sin for substantiation, the citizenry is entirely different from the residents that the fayth Dreamt to originally populate Dream Zanarkand. However, this citizenry is unaware of the Spira that exists outside the borders of Dream Zanarkand. Tidus had never heard of Bevelle, or Luca, or the actual Zanarkand, or any other location in Spira. As a result, he interpreted the Zanarkand long destroyed to be the same as Dream Zanarkand, his Zanarkand. This led many to the mistaken assumption that Tidus had been Dreamt 1000 years ago, the memory of Shuyin. However, realizing that Tidus really is only 17, we can see that the temporal distance between Shuyin and Tidus is massive. Tidus is certainly many generations removed from the original memories of Dream Zanarkand, and thus has no link of this manner to Shuyin.
Others have suggested that Tidus is the reincarnation of Shuyin. This has also led to the belief that Yuna is Lenne reincarnated, and that their love was, in a sense, preordained. However, based on the events of and facts revealed in FFX-2, we know that such is far from the case.
Often, in various mythologies, a reincarnated individual retains memories from his former life. Tidus, from what we see in FFX, has no such recollection. While this point does little to disprove a reincarnation theory, it does serve as additional evidence to accompany a host of other points. First, let us recall that Tidus is an Aeon, a Dream. His existence is dependent upon the Dreaming of the Fayth; when the defeat of Yu Yevon at the end of FFX ends the Summoning, the Dreaming ceases and Tidus dies. As a consequence, he goes to the Farplane for two years. We see from this, then, that Tidus’ very existence is dependent upon the fayth. As a result, any basis for spiritual reincarnation would be built on another Dream. It is impossible, in being Dreamt, to move outside this milieu. Tidus, then, could arguably be a reincarnation of Dream Zanarkand’s Shuyin, although there is no reason for this. In any case, he is certainly separated from the real Shuyin, who was never dependent in any way upon Yu Yevon’s Summoning.
Most compelling, however, is the fact that Shuyin still exists in Spira. Consumed by anger, his memories and spirit inhabited the Den of Woe for the 1000 years that followed his death. Shuyin never went to the Farplane; he is, in essence, Unsent. As Shuyin himself is still fully existent in the physical Spira, reincarnation necessarily implies a paradox. Shuyin still exists, which would deny the possibility of spiritual reincarnation.
The original memories point returns more strikingly when we examine Yuna and Lenne. Early in FFX-2, Yuna describes feeling the emotions of another person when utilizing the Songstress Dressphere.
Yuna: (narrating) My body just started dancing by itself. I didn't know what was
going on. I was...frightened. Then, while I was dancing, something happened...
In the Celsius...
Rikku: (to Yuna) You sure looked like you were enjoying yourself.
Yuna: I was. It felt like some other person's excitement just took over.
Shinra: That can happen when you use the Garment Grid. The emotions of the
person recorded in the sphere pass to the user.
Note that Yuna feels full and complete separation from these memories, even though they controlled her to a degree. They were someone else’s. As the game progresses, and Yuna becomes aware of Lenne’s story, she still feels no connection. Lenne is fully separate, and their physical and professional (Summoner/musician) similarities seem merely coincidental (or symbolic, as the case may be).
Most important, however, is the concert on the Thunder Plains that takes place in Chapter 4. Here, we see the very spirit of Lenne, come out of the Songstress Dressphere. This helps clarify several ideas. Lenne’s soul crystallized to form the Dressphere. During the concert, her spirit emerged without affecting Yuna.
Finally, note that Lenne’s spirit leaves with Shuyin at the end of the game. Clearly, Yuna is no more a reincarnation of Lenne than Tidus is of Shuyin.
Having deconstructed these views, however, we must examine any and all possibilities as to why Tidus and Shuyin resemble each other. Now, unless there is some overriding presence in Spira that dictates fate (and there is no indication that such an entity exists), we must assume that Shuyin’s appearance was a random occurrence, with no greater significance. That, accompanied by the fact that Shuyin predated Tidus by a millennium, suggests that it is Tidus who resembles Shuyin, and not the other way around. Tidus, as we know, is a Dream of the Fayth (in essence, an Aeon).
In FFX…
Now, while the specifics of Tidus’ existence may seem independent from the actions of the fayth (i.e. the dynamic nature of Dream Zanarkand’s population), Tidus was still bound to existence by Yu Yevon’s Summoning and the Dreaming of the Fayth. This means that, although the fayth may not have directly influenced Tidus’ appearance, Tidus was still dependent upon the fayth for the substance of his manifestation. In the world of FFX and FFX-2, pyreflies are often the stuff of animation. Scanning a number of enemies will reveal that they are comprised of physical objects or substances, animated by pyreflies.Rikku: Wake up! Wake up!
Tidus: Wait...this is a dream.
Fayth: Precisely.
Tidus: A dream? Are you crazy? I don't have time to be dreaming now!
Fayth: You're wrong. It's not that you're dreaming. You are a dream.
Tidus: Huh? Wait a sec.
Tidus follow the fayth outside the boat. In the top section of the boat...
Fayth: Long ago, there was a war.
Tidus: Yeah, with machina, right?
Fayth: Yes. A war between Zanarkand and Bevelle. Bevelle's machina
assured their victory from the start. Spira had never seen such power.
The summoners of Zanarkand didn't stand a chance. Zanarkand was doomed
to oblivion. That's why we tried to save it-if only in a memory.
Tidus: What did you do?
Fayth: The remaining summoners and the townspeople that survived the
war... They all became fayth-fayth for the summoning.
Tidus: The summoning... You mean Sin?
Fayth: No. I mean this place. A Zanarkand that never sleeps.
Tidus: What?
Fayth: The dreams of the fayth summoned the memories of the city. They
summoned all the buildings, all the people who lived there.
Tidus: The people... What, they're all dreams? Me, too?
Fayth: Yes, you're a dream of the fayth. You, your father, your mother,
everyone. All dreams.
(from Shinra’s Bestiary) -Iron Giant- Description: A fiend that appears to be a machine but is actually an empty suit of armor animated by pyreflies. Physical attacks are ineffective, but it is vulnerable to magicNow, we know that Shuyin himself, after death, existed as an Unsent. However, he was an unusual Unsent; somehow, his emotions “bonded” with pyreflies.(from Shinra’s Bestiary) -Protean Gel- Description: A fiend born of pyreflies that have fused with water. Its gelatinous body renders physical attacks useless, ands its ability to change the element it absorbs is just plain wrong.
It will ultimately be my contention, then, that the pyreflies used to give Tidus substance were somehow recycled from Shuyin. These pyreflies derive from the Unsent Shuyin of Spira, not the hypothetical Aeon Shuyin of Dream Zanarakand. In this way, Shuyin’s physical self was (likely unintentionally) reused as a template for Tidus. Arguably, this could determine the physical nature of all Dream Zanarkand residents; while the fayth may not consciously determine the citizens’ appearances, merely utilizing certain pyreflies predestines one’s (if one is a Dream) looks and features.Rikku: Shuyin is no ordinary unsent!
Paine: Seems that way. When he died a thousand years ago, his feelings became intertwined with the pyreflies, creating this... apparition.
Note what Shinra’s Glossary of Spira tells us about pyreflies.
Pyreflies are known to be a form of matter, yet do not have any physical form of their own. We also know that they are related to aeons. Given that the Dreams have some autonomy from the fayth, yet are still bound to existence by the Summoning, one can easily conjecture that pyreflies form this link. Although independent (to a degree), the citizens of Dream Zanarkand are comprised of pyreflies. When Yu Yevon was defeated, that force which made the pyreflies take on physical form was lost. Hence, the souls of the Dreams went to the Farplane.Glossary of Spira: -Pyreflies-
A type of matter that drifts throughout Spira via its waterways. Despite the name, pyreflies are not insects and have no physical form. Pyreflies are known to react with our thoughts and preserve them as illusions. They are related to fiends, aeons, and even Sin, but exactly how remains unclear.
Pyreflies and preservation of Shuyin’s physical self can also be used to explain the Overdrive similarities; Tidus’ attacks were unknowingly modeled after Shuyin’s abilities of a thousand years earlier. This also explains how Tidus grew battle-proficient so quickly. In FFX, Tidus can barely lift the Longsword after it is given to him by Auron in the first battle. However, after establishing some balance, Tidus is able to fight reasonably well (certainly much better than one would expect from a teenager with no combat experience, especially when he can barely hold his weapon). In this battle, then, we see the physical gifts of Shuyin manifesting themselves in Tidus.
It’s important, of course, to distinguish between the possibility I have raised here, and the reincarnation theory debunked earlier in this essay. This is particularly notable, since it was Shuyin’s feelings that “intertwined” with the pyreflies. However, what I propose is, in actuality, profoundly different.
Spiritual reincarnation would involve Shuyin being reborn as Tidus, so to speak. On some deeper level, Tidus would likely have the memories and opinions of Shuyin. If this were the case, Tidus would not have any desire to save Spira. However, we know that Shuyin’s spirit is not the foundation for Tidus. Manipulation of Shuyin’s spirit would likely require some omnipotent entity, a God really, for such an occurrence. Not only is there no implication of such a being in FFX/X-2, but, even if there were, Tidus was manifested by Yu Yevon and the Fayth. There seems to be no way that they could control the soul of Shuyin. Most compelling, as noted earlier, is that Shuyin’s essence still exists in Spira.
As seen in both FFX and FFX-2, however, pyreflies allow for the establishment of physical form. While they can interact with thoughts and emotions, it’s clear that they are the stuff of much of Spira’s matter (or at least interact with it). I would propose, then, that manipulation of pyreflies was absolutely necessary to embody the memories of Zanarkand; indeed, this was the substance of the entire Dream. Woven by the Summoning, Dream Zanarkand unraveled into its component pyreflies when the Summoning was ended. However, the Dreams’ deeper identities, their souls, did not vanish. Tidus returns at the end of FFX-2 (in the Good and Perfect endings), and we see evidence of both Tidus’ mother and Jecht on the Farplane at different times in FFX. We can assume, then, that the physical form generated by the Summoning, the Dreaming, becomes a vessel for a soul. The physical form may be unknowingly recycled, but the person is not a carbon copy of their material counterpart. In the case of the Dreams, the pyreflies that comprise them may recall their previous materialized form, but the overall creation is decidedly different.
Ultimately, Tidus is a unique individual, though physically similar (even identical) to Shuyin. Tidus, in being Dreamt by the fayth, would have slowly developed his own opinions and personality, in the same manner as anyone else. Physically, however, he is the recycled Shuyin, ironically mirroring his physical model in contrary action. Thus, in Tidus, we do see the ultimate reversal of Spira’s “Spiral of Death;” he embodies the fall of Sin, the resurrection of the physical body, and, perhaps most powerfully, the regeneration of the ultimate seeker of death into the ultimate seeker of life.
Admittedly, much of my explanation involves pure speculation. There may even be certain in-game fallacies; I view this document as a work in progress. Nevertheless, even if my theory falls short in some way, I do believe that it is possible to reach an explanation for this seemingly insoluble phenomenon. As such, your own comments and conjecture will be greatly appreciated.
I’d also like to thank Squall of SeeD. In a different thread, he provided the information showing that time passes in Dream Zanarkand as it does in Spira, as well as the Thunder Plains concert showing the separation between Lenne and Yuna.