Multiple FF Questions

[Masamune·1600]

Final Fantasy VII

Story-related

-At the end of the game, Sephiroth is destroyed, and so releases Aeris's spirit into the Lifestream, bringing her prayer for Holy to the planet to make it's decision, correct?

Not exactly. Aeris' 'spirit' did not have to reach the Lifestream, so to speak, to unleash Holy. Actually, it seems unlikely that she even had to die for Holy to be cast. Her prayer alone would have been sufficient for the White Materia to glow pale green (which indicates its activation). Indeed, the orb is shown doing so after the Key of the Ancients sequence, which takes place before her spirit reaches the Planet. Recall this segment of dialogue, from the end of Disc 2, which occurs after we see the White Materia has been activated.

Cloud: ......Aeris. She was smiling to the end. We have to do something, or
that smile will just freeze like that. Let's go all together. Memories of
Aeris... ...Although she should've returned to the planet by now, something
stopped her and now she's stuck...... We've got to let go of Aeris' memory.

The implication is, of course, that Aeris had not yet returned to the Planet. Nevertheless, the White Materia was glowing. Holy, then, had been ready long before it was released. However, the actual Magic was being blocked by Sephiroth. Recall this dialogue segment from the Key of the Ancients sequence (as I noted before):

Cloud: Thank you... Aeris. Aeris' voice has already reached the Planet. Just
look at the glow of the White Materia. But...... how about Holy? How come Holy
isn't moving? Why?

Bugenhagen: Something's getting in its way.

Cloud: ......Him...... He's the only one that could do it....Sephiroth. Where
are you?

In essence, Aeris' prayer at the Water Altar was sufficient for the White Materia to be activated. The actual Holy Magic, however, was blocked by Sephiroth (likely due to the influence of the otherworldly JENOVA). Sephiroth's defeat allowed for Holy to be released, to the effects that we saw in the ending FMV sequences.

-Sephiroth never died before the end of the game; Cloud threw him into the Lifestream after he'd been stabbed, correct? But how did Sephiroth become imprisoned in what looked to be giant materia?

The matter of Sephiroth's imprisonment in materia was addressed in my initial post.

After Sephiroth was thrown into the depths of the reactor, his body floated through the Lifestream. Recall that Mako is compressed Spirit Energy and that Spirit Energy is the stuff of the Lifestream; it makes sense, then, that the reactor might tap the Lifestream in order to have a source of Spirit Energy to be converted to Mako. Once in the Lifestream, Sephiroth would have floated to his ultimate location at the Crater. As materia is crystallized Mako/Spirit Energy, and materia can form naturally, Sephiroth merely followed the Lifestream to that point.

When is VII's world referred to as Gaia? That's FFIX!

It's not referred to as "Gaia" in-game, but SE has since clarified that this is in fact the name of the planet. Refer to this site for a brief explanation.

[Squall of SeeD]

I can't believe I missed this Thread. How the hell? D:

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

The only real "evidence" for that occurs in X-2 when Shinra says that the pyreflies of the Farplane can be harvested into some sort of fossil fuel. People instantly made the connection with Mako energy, which uses the Lifestream (more or less the same thing) to provide power to the masses. The fact that his name was Shinra also led people to believe that the little genius in FFX-2 would go on (or his descendants) to bring the dream to fruition etc. etc.

I think it's reasonable to say that Square just put it in as a bit of a tease. FFX-2 isn't a "serious" FF and it's set in a light-hearted sort of way. I'd just dismiss it as an attempt to be mildly humourous.

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

As far as we know, no they are not. It is not something officially stated by the game's creators. It is just a rumor.

As masamune1600 has shown with the link to my website, there's a good bit more to it than that. The writer of Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, and X-2 has said that his intention with writing X-2 was that Shinra of the Gullwings would be the ancestor of the Shin-Ra Corporation's founders.

By the way, Shinra doesn't suggest that it's a fossil fuel. He outright calls it the lifeforce that lies within Spira. In other words, it's Spirit Energy.

-What is Vincent precisely?

He's a former Turk. Hojo messed around with him (I don't think it was injection of Jenova cells like SOLDIER because he doesn't make Mako eyes, so it's something else evil and frankensteiny) and now he's a freak that can change forms.

Mako Eyes are the result of Mako infusion, anyway, not JENOVA Cell injections.

-How can Nanaki (Red XIII) reproduce if he is the last of his kind?

He may be similar to those animals that can reproduce without a mate (was that asexual, or is that something else *is confused*). Failing that, the world of FFVII is a very magical place. So a wizard did it.

As masamune pointed out, Bugenhagen's dialogue with Nanaki would suggest that there may yet be others like Nanaki in the world. Nanaki was the only one to say that Nanaki is the last of his kind, and the only evidence he had for that belief was that he hadn't seen any others of his kind. He was angsting and assuming it to be the case.

-Throughout the game, Cloud hears a voice in his head, such as after he falls into the church and meets Aeris. Who is speaking to him? Is it Sephiroth?

I've always thought it was the real Cloud, a little bit of him that knows about his past and wants to help physical Cloud get back to himself. A pretty safe assumption because the voice stops after Tifa and Cloud take a dip in the lifestream.

Yes, it was definitely Cloud's subconscious. Here's a full explanation of this matter: Linkage.

-At the end of the game, Sephiroth is destroyed, and so releases Aeris's spirit into the Lifestream, bringing her prayer for Holy to the planet to make it's decision, correct?

No. We hate Holy! Holy failed the Planet. Red XIII says that Holy is leaving the Planet and that it failed to protect it from Midgar. Aeris doesn't save anything because she prayed for Holy, not the lifestream. Her sacrifice was for nothing. As for her face appearing at the end, I've read that as a tribute to the price she paid to try and save the world. She had nothing to do with it IMO.

Nanaki didn't say that Holy was leaving the Planet. He said that it was too late for it to do its job. This was most likely because Holy had been held back for weeks. The Lifestream, by the way, didn't stop Meteor on its own. It merely added power to Holy, so Holy was still very much necessary.

One more thing: Aerith didn't sacrifice herself. Her death was as much a surprise to her as it was to everyone else. Go here for a full explanation: Linkage. Her death still proved beneficial to humanity in the end, as the implication offered by the story is that it was her spirit that had the Lifestream rise to give Holy the strength to face down Meteor to begin with (her theme playing as it rose, Marlene sensing her, and her face appearing in its wake).


[QUOTE=TurkSlayer]

-What exactly, was the purpose of all the Sephiroth clones with numbers tatooed on them, and why did some de, and some live, and what was reunion?

Hojo created them as an experiment, and they came because Jenova called them. Sephiroth only needed them to retreive the Black Materia, and that clone was of course (SPOILER)Cloud.

Just for clarification, he didn't "create" them exactly. As has been said, they were the other survivors of the Nibelheim massacre. Hojo injected them with JENOVA Cells and infused them with Mako.

Also, reading my post again, I'm very certain that Shin-ra Inc. wasn't founded on another planet, as the maps are nearly identical. Look and see for yourselves.

I'm convinced it's the same planet- it's just that a whole continent is missing from the FFX map. It may be different in FFVII due to plate tectonics and lower water-levels. Yes, I know, I'm dumb.

Nojima said they are different Planets.

Nojima suggests that its true, and he has a certain amount of authority in the area. However, his idea, as currently construed, is wrought with MASSIVE plotholes (as a matter of fact, I view a few of the things he's said as impossibilities).

Why so? Nothing he said in any way contradicts the established history of Final Fantasy VII. The only thing that would require accounting for is the loss of advanced space trave technology, and considering that thousands of years would have needed to pass and that the Planet has endured JENOVA's assault in the past, there's reasonable room for an explanation regarding its loss right there.

The concept -- at least as of the time of the interview in 2003 -- hasn't been fully fleshed-out, but this is hardly a plothole as it wasn't a complete narrative.

He can certainly make changes to make the idea more plausible, but, without rewriting the FFVII history, the task would be nearly Herculean. Frankly, I don't think that he'll be able to form a fully logical connection between Gaia and Spira that respects the histories of both worlds.

I'm sure he could. I can do so easily right now:

(Note: Keep in mind that Nojima said that Shinra was unsuccessful in properly implementing the concept of Mako extraction.)

1) 1000 years after X-2, Shinra's descendants -- for whatever reason -- go to Gaia.

2) There they encounter the Cetra, the native inhabitants of Gaia.

3) They introduce the Cetra to concepts like "leisure" and "chillin'," and many Cetra find that this easier lifestyle is appealing and give up their Cetra ways.

4) Sometime later, JENOVA arrives and launches its assault on the world.

5) The Common Homo Sapiens (the descendants of the Spirans and those Cetra who gave up the Cetra way of life) flee before JENOVA, leaving the few remaining Cetra to face JENOVA alone.

6) The few survivors mount an assault on the creature and successfully manage to confine it.

7) Sometime in the future, Shinra's descendants found the Shin-Ra Corporation, a weapon manufacturing company.

8) Sometime after that, Shin-Ra discovers the means to successfully implement their ancestor's concept of Mako extraction.

9) Some 2000 years after JENOVA was confined, it is discovered by Professor Gast.

10) The JENOVA Project and Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

11) The Wutai War occurs.

12) Shin-Ra developed new technology during the Wutai War, the concept of a rocket being among it.

13) Shin-Ra develops 26 rocket prototypes before developing one that will work.

14) The rocket launch is a failure due to Cid choosing Shera's life over his dream.

15) Shin-Ra scraps the Space Program as it realizes that Mako extraction is far more profitable.


There I've just layed out a very simple sequence of events in which things could occur without contradicing the established backstory of Final Fantasy VII in any manner, and which actually corresponds with what we're told in VII at several points. I'm sure Nojima could think of something similar, and probably better.

And about the FFX(-2) and FFVII connections, now that I think about it, I doubt that the entire history of FFVII can take place within 1000 years on a different planet, nor can it possibly take place on Spira, because of Spira's own history.

Don't compress all of VII's known backstory into 1000 years. We're not given any kind of timeframe into which the sequence of events falls. All we know is that the events themselves occur. There's very little that VII's backstory gives us that actually has an established timeframe.

When is VII's world referred to as Gaia? That's FFIX!

Square-Enix called it "Gaia" in an Advent Children pamphlet released at E3 in 2003. Further, in the game itself, the icy ledges at the top of the world are called "Gaia's Cliffs." Here's a link with more, including a scan of the pamphlet I mentioned: Linkage.


Anyway, Nojima's stated that the connection was his intention when he wrote X-2, and being that he was the Scenario Writer of VII, VIII, X, and X-2, I feel that he has the authority to make that call. I think it's accurate.

[Dreddz]

Guess theres no real reason for me to answer, but you should point out spoilers

[LunaticPandora37]

[QUOTE=Squall of SeeD]I can't believe I missed this Thread. How the hell? D:

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

The only real "evidence" for that occurs in X-2 when Shinra says that the pyreflies of the Farplane can be harvested into some sort of fossil fuel. People instantly made the connection with Mako energy, which uses the Lifestream (more or less the same thing) to provide power to the masses. The fact that his name was Shinra also led people to believe that the little genius in FFX-2 would go on (or his descendants) to bring the dream to fruition etc. etc.

I think it's reasonable to say that Square just put it in as a bit of a tease. FFX-2 isn't a "serious" FF and it's set in a light-hearted sort of way. I'd just dismiss it as an attempt to be mildly humourous.

-Is it true that FFX and FFX-2 are prequels to FFVII? I've compared maps, and they seem very similar (FFVII's map has many more smaller islands broken off of main continents, and Spheres may, in fact, be early Materia, and much more abundant).

As far as we know, no they are not. It is not something officially stated by the game's creators. It is just a rumor.

As masamune1600 has shown with the link to my website, there's a good bit more to it than that. The writer of Final Fantasy VII, VIII, X, and X-2 has said that his intention with writing X-2 was that Shinra of the Gullwings would be the ancestor of the Shin-Ra Corporation's founders.

By the way, Shinra doesn't suggest that it's a fossil fuel. He outright calls it the lifeforce that lies within Spira. In other words, it's Spirit Energy.

-What is Vincent precisely?

He's a former Turk. Hojo messed around with him (I don't think it was injection of Jenova cells like SOLDIER because he doesn't make Mako eyes, so it's something else evil and frankensteiny) and now he's a freak that can change forms.

Mako Eyes are the result of Mako infusion, anyway, not JENOVA Cell injections.

-How can Nanaki (Red XIII) reproduce if he is the last of his kind?

He may be similar to those animals that can reproduce without a mate (was that asexual, or is that something else *is confused*). Failing that, the world of FFVII is a very magical place. So a wizard did it.

As masamune pointed out, Bugenhagen's dialogue with Nanaki would suggest that there may yet be others like Nanaki in the world. Nanaki was the only one to say that Nanaki is the last of his kind, and the only evidence he had for that belief was that he hadn't seen any others of his kind. He was angsting and assuming it to be the case.

-Throughout the game, Cloud hears a voice in his head, such as after he falls into the church and meets Aeris. Who is speaking to him? Is it Sephiroth?

I've always thought it was the real Cloud, a little bit of him that knows about his past and wants to help physical Cloud get back to himself. A pretty safe assumption because the voice stops after Tifa and Cloud take a dip in the lifestream.

Yes, it was definitely Cloud's subconscious. Here's a full explanation of this matter: Linkage.

-At the end of the game, Sephiroth is destroyed, and so releases Aeris's spirit into the Lifestream, bringing her prayer for Holy to the planet to make it's decision, correct?

No. We hate Holy! Holy failed the Planet. Red XIII says that Holy is leaving the Planet and that it failed to protect it from Midgar. Aeris doesn't save anything because she prayed for Holy, not the lifestream. Her sacrifice was for nothing. As for her face appearing at the end, I've read that as a tribute to the price she paid to try and save the world. She had nothing to do with it IMO.

Nanaki didn't say that Holy was leaving the Planet. He said that it was too late for it to do its job. This was most likely because Holy had been held back for weeks. The Lifestream, by the way, didn't stop Meteor on its own. It merely added power to Holy, so Holy was still very much necessary.

One more thing: Aerith didn't sacrifice herself. Her death was as much a surprise to her as it was to everyone else. Go here for a full explanation: Linkage. Her death still proved beneficial to humanity in the end, as the implication offered by the story is that it was her spirit that had the Lifestream rise to give Holy the strength to face down Meteor to begin with (her theme playing as it rose, Marlene sensing her, and her face appearing in its wake).

-What exactly, was the purpose of all the Sephiroth clones with numbers tatooed on them, and why did some de, and some live, and what was reunion?

Hojo created them as an experiment, and they came because Jenova called them. Sephiroth only needed them to retreive the Black Materia, and that clone was of course (SPOILER)Cloud.

Just for clarification, he didn't "create" them exactly. As has been said, they were the other survivors of the Nibelheim massacre. Hojo injected them with JENOVA Cells and infused them with Mako.

Also, reading my post again, I'm very certain that Shin-ra Inc. wasn't founded on another planet, as the maps are nearly identical. Look and see for yourselves.

I'm convinced it's the same planet- it's just that a whole continent is missing from the FFX map. It may be different in FFVII due to plate tectonics and lower water-levels. Yes, I know, I'm dumb.

Nojima said they are different Planets.

Nojima suggests that its true, and he has a certain amount of authority in the area. However, his idea, as currently construed, is wrought with MASSIVE plotholes (as a matter of fact, I view a few of the things he's said as impossibilities).

Why so? Nothing he said in any way contradicts the established history of Final Fantasy VII. The only thing that would require accounting for is the loss of advanced space trave technology, and considering that thousands of years would have needed to pass and that the Planet has endured JENOVA's assault in the past, there's reasonable room for an explanation regarding its loss right there.

The concept -- at least as of the time of the interview in 2003 -- hasn't been fully fleshed-out, but this is hardly a plothole as it wasn't a complete narrative.

He can certainly make changes to make the idea more plausible, but, without rewriting the FFVII history, the task would be nearly Herculean. Frankly, I don't think that he'll be able to form a fully logical connection between Gaia and Spira that respects the histories of both worlds.

I'm sure he could. I can do so easily right now:

(Note: Keep in mind that Nojima said that Shinra was unsuccessful in properly implementing the concept of Mako extraction.)

1) 1000 years after X-2, Shinra's descendants -- for whatever reason -- go to Gaia.

2) There they encounter the Cetra, the native inhabitants of Gaia.

3) They introduce the Cetra to concepts like "leisure" and "chillin'," and many Cetra find that this easier lifestyle is appealing and give up their Cetra ways.

4) Sometime later, JENOVA arrives and launches its assault on the world.

5) The Common Homo Sapiens (the descendants of the Spirans and those Cetra who gave up the Cetra way of life) flee before JENOVA, leaving the few remaining Cetra to face JENOVA alone.

6) The few survivors mount an assault on the creature and successfully manage to confine it.

7) Sometime in the future, Shinra's descendants found the Shin-Ra Corporation, a weapon manufacturing company.

8) Sometime after that, Shin-Ra discovers the means to successfully implement their ancestor's concept of Mako extraction.

9) Some 2000 years after JENOVA was confined, it is discovered by Professor Gast.

10) The JENOVA Project and Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

11) The Wutai War occurs.

12) Shin-Ra developed new technology during the Wutai War, the concept of a rocket being among it.

13) Shin-Ra develops 26 rocket prototypes before developing one that will work.

14) The rocket launch is a failure due to Cid choosing Shera's life over his dream.

15) Shin-Ra scraps the Space Program as it realizes that Mako extraction is far more profitable.


There I've just layed out a very simple sequence of events in which things could occur without contradicing the established backstory of Final Fantasy VII in any manner, and which actually corresponds with what we're told in VII at several points. I'm sure Nojima could think of something similar, and probably better.

And about the FFX(-2) and FFVII connections, now that I think about it, I doubt that the entire history of FFVII can take place within 1000 years on a different planet, nor can it possibly take place on Spira, because of Spira's own history.

Don't compress all of VII's known backstory into 1000 years. We're not given any kind of timeframe into which the sequence of events falls. All we know is that the events themselves occur. There's very little that VII's backstory gives us that actually has an established timeframe.

When is VII's world referred to as Gaia? That's FFIX!

Square-Enix called it "Gaia" in an Advent Children pamphlet released at E3 in 2003. Further, in the game itself, the icy ledges at the top of the world are called "Gaia's Cliffs." Here's a link with more, including a scan of the pamphlet I mentioned: Linkage.


Anyway, Nojima's stated that the connection was his intention when he wrote X-2, and being that he was the Scenario Writer of VII, VIII, X, and X-2, I feel that he has the authority to make that call. I think it's accurate.

...what he said...

[Mercen-X]

Lunatic, that is an unnecessary post. Please delete it.

I'm sure he could. I can do so easily right now:

(Note: Keep in mind that Nojima said that Shinra was unsuccessful in properly implementing the concept of Mako extraction.)

1) 1000 years after X-2, Shinra's descendants -- for whatever reason -- go to Gaia.
Shinra is a very curious boy, no doubt as a curious man, he would have instilled a sense of exploration and wonder in his children (and thus his descendants) which would no doubt evolve to a desire for space travel. With the support of Rin's descendants no doubt.


2) There they encounter the Cetra, the native inhabitants of Gaia.

3) They introduce the Cetra to concepts like "leisure," and many Cetra find that this easier lifestyle is appealing and give up their Cetra ways.
Sephiroth
"But, those that disliked the journey appeared. Those who stopped their migrations, built shelters, and elected to lead an easier life."
"They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without giving one whit in return!"
"Those are your ancestors."

4) Sometime later, JENOVA arrives and launches its assault on the world.
I imagine that Shinra's space-traveling descendants would have already encountered Jenova, but were simply unaware of what it was.

5) The common Homo Sapiens (the descendants of the Spirans and those Cetra who gave up the Cetra way of life) flee before JENOVA, leaving the few remaining Cetra to face JENOVA alone.
Actually, I don't think the "lazy Cetra" would have become "common Homo Sapiens." I mean, that's not quite how Ifalna describes it. Wait, did she go into that at all? Anyway, Aeris is described as being half-Cetra, which would make her half-Homosapien, which would mean Ifalna (and any other Cetra) was not at all a Homosapien.

6) The few survivors mount an assault on the creature and successfully manage to confine it.

7) Sometime in the future, Shinra's descendants found the Shin-Ra Corporation, a weapons manufacturing company.
I'd say at least 1900 years, I never heard of any manufacturing company that's lasted more than 100 years.

8) Sometime after that, the Shin-Ra discover the means to successfully implement their ancestor's concept of Mako extraction.
Judging by my previous edit, at least 100 years later.

9) Some 2000 years after JENOVA was confined, it is discovered by Professor Gast.

10) The JENOVA Project and construction of Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

11) The Wutai War occurs.
Goro of Wutai, greedy for power and jealous of Shinra's might, lays siege to their shores.

12) Shin-Ra developed new technology during the Wutai War, the concept of a rocket being among it.
Obviously, during the Jenova attack, many scientists would have been killed and thus space-travel technology would have been temporarily lost and forgotten.

13) Shin-Ra develops 26 rocket prototypes before developing one that will work.

14) The rocket launch is a failure due to Cid choosing Shera's life over his dream.

15) Shin-Ra scraps the Space Program as it realizes that Mako extraction is far more profitable.

There I've just layed out a very simple sequence of events in which things could occur without contradicing the established backstory of Final Fantasy VII in any manner, and which actually corresponds with what we're told in VII at several points. I'm sure Nojima could think of something similar, and probably better.

[Squall of SeeD]

I imagine that Shinra's space-traveling descendants would have already encountered Jenova, but were simply unaware of what it was.

Why?

Actually, I don't think the "lazy Cetra" would have become "common Homo Sapiens." I mean, that's not quite how Ifalna describes it. Wait, did she go into that at all? Anyway, Aeris is described as being half-Cetra, which would make her half-Homosapien, which would mean Ifalna (and any other Cetra) was not at all a Homosapien.

All that seperates the Cetra from the other Homo Sapiens are their lifestyles. Being a Cetra is not a genetic thing, but a spiritual one. After Sephiroth reads the record of the Cetra who gave up their journeys, he says to Zack "Those are your ancestors." Considering that the journals belonged to Dr. Gast and that he was a scholar of the Cetra who spent time studying at Cosmo Canyon, it's safe to assume that he was right.

The JENOVA Project and construction of Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

The game merely says the "use of" Mako Reactor No. 1.

Goro of Wutai, greedy for power and jealous of Shinra's might, lays siege to their shores.

Considering that Shin-Ra is ran by a bunch of greedy bastards and that they would have probably already controlled most of the world, it's probably a safe bet that they were the aggressor during that war, not Godo.

[Masamune·1600]

Nojima suggests that its true, and he has a certain amount of authority in the area. However, his idea, as currently construed, is wrought with MASSIVE plotholes (as a matter of fact, I view a few of the things he's said as impossibilities).

Why so? Nothing he said in any way contradicts the established history of Final Fantasy VII. The only thing that would require accounting for is the loss of advanced space trave technology, and considering that thousands of years would have needed to pass and that the Planet has endured JENOVA's assault in the past, there's reasonable room for an explanation regarding its loss right there.

The concept -- at least as of the time of the interview in 2003 -- hasn't been fully fleshed-out, but this is hardly a plothole as it wasn't a complete narrative.

The all-important question, however, is whether the concept retains validity if it is not definitively explored in the Compilation. This also brings Nomura and Kitase into the issue. Even if they don't publically denounce the idea (or even if one or both is neutral to it), I don't think the connection will receive adequate exploration without their approval.

He can certainly make changes to make the idea more plausible, but, without rewriting the FFVII history, the task would be nearly Herculean. Frankly, I don't think that he'll be able to form a fully logical connection between Gaia and Spira that respects the histories of both worlds.

I'm sure he could. I can do so easily right now:

(Note: Keep in mind that Nojima said that Shinra was unsuccessful in properly implementing the concept of Mako extraction.)

1) 1000 years after X-2, Shinra's descendants -- for whatever reason -- go to Gaia.

2) There they encounter the Cetra, the native inhabitants of Gaia.

3) They introduce the Cetra to concepts like "leisure" and "chillin'," and many Cetra find that this easier lifestyle is appealing and give up their Cetra ways.

4) Sometime later, JENOVA arrives and launches its assault on the world.

5) The Common Homo Sapiens (the descendants of the Spirans and those Cetra who gave up the Cetra way of life) flee before JENOVA, leaving the few remaining Cetra to face JENOVA alone.

6) The few survivors mount an assault on the creature and successfully manage to confine it.

7) Sometime in the future, Shinra's descendants found the Shin-Ra Corporation, a weapon manufacturing company.

8) Sometime after that, Shin-Ra discovers the means to successfully implement their ancestor's concept of Mako extraction.

9) Some 2000 years after JENOVA was confined, it is discovered by Professor Gast.

10) The JENOVA Project and Mako Reactor No. 1 are approved.

11) The Wutai War occurs.

12) Shin-Ra developed new technology during the Wutai War, the concept of a rocket being among it.

13) Shin-Ra develops 26 rocket prototypes before developing one that will work.

14) The rocket launch is a failure due to Cid choosing Shera's life over his dream.

15) Shin-Ra scraps the Space Program as it realizes that Mako extraction is far more profitable.


There I've just layed out a very simple sequence of events in which things could occur without contradicing the established backstory of Final Fantasy VII in any manner, and which actually corresponds with what we're told in VII at several points. I'm sure Nojima could think of something similar, and probably better.

Well, there are a few major issues, and several minor ones. The lesser issues might be looked at as petty, but I feel that anything that compromises either story would make explicating the theory ill-advised.

Some of the issues that would need to be addressed might include:

What happened to the space travel technology? While it could easily have been destroyed, it seems unlikely that everyone with knowledge of it would have been killed or otherwise rendered incapable of passing the information. Attempts to retain the knowledge would have been particularly critical given that the Spirans would have been forever cut off from their home world. Also, it seems impossible that the idea of space travel would have been eradicated. Were that the case, one would think that the peoples of Gaia might have developed space-capable rocketry before advanced robotics and doomsday weaponry. Finally, the lack of archaelogical evidence would need to be explained. Given the discovery of JENOVA and the work at Bone Village, it seems strange that no remnants of the interstellar equipment were at anytime unearthed. Noting that FFVII was developed long before FFX/X-2 doesn't help here; it's the responsibility of the writer to incorporate new material within the boundaries of the old framework when working retroactively.

Why was the ideal of Mako energy retained? Given that Shinra's descendents ultimately became the leaders of a corrupt, amoral, and ultimately greedy organization, it seems absurd that they would have dedicated any amount of resources to researching a far-removed dream. True, Mako energy turned out to be profitable, but why would the concept have ever reached that stage? Shinra certainly didn't put any great amount of effort into space/rocket resarch, which one might assume would have taken on the qualities of an ideal after the technology was lost.

Why are the Farplane and the Lifestream markedly different? Since we assume the same universe, this spiritual gap must be called into question. This is especially relevant since JENOVA, in being contrary to the Lifestream, seems to fit within the FFVII spiritual framework. For that matter, why doesn't Gaia have pyreflies or fayth? The domains of the soul seem unrelated in many ways, and I think this would be far more difficult to explain than certain material differences.

I can think of possible explanations for all of these questions, although I don't find them very satisfactory. Moreover, it would be almost impossible to address every detail which could (and I feel should) be called into question. Therein lies my main complaint. It's unrealistic to expect a Compilation piece taking place on Gaia to adequately address every issue, which inevitably leads to plotholes, ambiguities, and contradictions. Gaia and Spira both have incredible stories; I feel it would be unfair to both to force them together.

And about the FFX(-2) and FFVII connections, now that I think about it, I doubt that the entire history of FFVII can take place within 1000 years on a different planet, nor can it possibly take place on Spira, because of Spira's own history.

Don't compress all of VII's known backstory into 1000 years. We're not given any kind of timeframe into which the sequence of events falls. All we know is that the events themselves occur. There's very little that VII's backstory gives us that actually has an established timeframe.

As currently construed, FFVII's backstory extends far beyond 1000 years anyway. All in-game evidence points to JENOVA having been contained ~2000 years, and Ifalna's testimony in the Icicle Inn tapes gives us details of that general period.

Wait, did she go into that at all?

She didn't. Here's exactly what Ifalna said in the first tape, which dealt with the long-ago events.

The Original Crisis

Gast: Camera's ready! Then, Ifalna, please tell us about the Cetra.

Ifalna: 2000 years ago, our ancestors, the Cetra, heard the cries of the
Planet. The first ones to discover the Planet's wound were the Cetra at
the Knowlespole.

Gast: Tell us Ifalna... Where is the land called 'Knowlespole'?

Ifalna: Knowlespole refers to this area [The northern continent]. The Cetra
then began a Planet-reading.

Gast: Ifalna, what exactly does Planet-reading entail?

Ifalna: ...I can't explain it very well, but it's like having a conversation
with the Planet... It said something fell from the sky making a large wound.
Thousands of Cetra pulled together, trying to heal the Planet... But, due to
the severity of the wound, it was only able to heal itself, over many years.

Gast: Do the Ancients, rather, the Cetra, have special powers to heal the
Planet?

Ifalna: No, it's not that kind of power. The life force of all living things
on this Planet becomes the energy. The Cetra tried desperately to cultivate
the land so as not to diminish the needed energy...

Gast: Hmm, even here so close to the North Cave, the snow never melts. Is
that because the planet's energy is gathered here to heal its injury?

Ifalna: Yes, the energy that was needed to heal the Planet withered away the
land... then the Planet... The Planet tried to persuade the Cetra to leave the
Knowlespole, but...

Gast: "Ifalna... Let's take a break."

Ifalna: I'm all right... When the Cetra... were preparing to part with the
land they loved... That's when it appeared! It looked like... our... our dead
mothers... and our dead brothers. Showing us spectres of their past.

Gast: Who is the person that appeared at the North Cave? I haven't any idea.

Ifalna: That's when the one who injured the Planet... or the 'crisis from the
sky', as we call him, came. He first approached as a friend, deceived them,
and finally...... gave them the virus. The Cetra were attacked by the virus
and went mad... transforming into monsters. Then, just as he had at the
Knowlespole. He approached other Cetra clans...... infecting them with... the
virus...

Gast: You don't look well... Let's call it a day.

(End of film)

The second tape revolved exclusively around WEAPON, and the confinement of JENOVA by the "remaining Cetra." The third and fourth tapes were recorded shortly after Aeris' birth.

Goro of Wutai, greedy for power and jealous of Shinra's might, lays siege to their shores.

The name is Godo. This thread deals with answering some rather involuted questions about FFVII, so it's probably not the best time to bring up the idea that you find the name given in the game unsatisfactory (I'm guessing that's what you were getting at). It might confuse people.

And, as Squall pointed out, Shinra was almost certainly the aggressor. I doubt Godo would have attacked Shinra, given that Wutai's defeat destroyed much of its culture.