A problem with the R=U theory.

[Squall of SeeD]

2. As can be seen from the similarities in the character designs of the female FF8 characters in the FMV’s, the same basic body seems to have been used for all of them, with minor alterations. They probably couldn’t be bothered changing her appearance enough to make her look any older than the other characters.

Really, though, she did look older than the other girls. I would say a good 10 to 15 years older.

Compare:

Edea.
Edea again.
Edea 3.
Selphie.
Quistis.
Rinoa.

Now Im not trying to argue with any of you FF VIII vets, Ive just finished the game today for the first time (hooray for me ) so Im kinda trying to put the whole thing together.

I understood things to work this way:

1. Odines machine based on Elone becomes very powerful in the future enabling Ultimecia to travel back in time, so she comes up with the whole time compression theory and figures "what the heck Ill give it a shot"

2.Ultimecia isnt able to go back far enough to compress time from the begining but she gets fortunate enough to get dropped off in Elones time (or she purposely does so after finding her abilities in time travel are still limited). Hence she starts a search for this girl the machines based on in order to use her to go further back.

3.Ultimecia posseses Adel (whos not such a nice person to begin with) to accomplish this but after Laguna and friends put Adel out of commision, Ultimecia jumps to Edea, but SeeD having defeated Edea many times causes her to go with Rinoa.Smart choice because of the relationship she has with Squall and the rest of the gang perhaps thinking that relationship will serve to protect Rinoa as she uses her.


Is any of this right?

Pretty much, yes.

[Christmas]

3.Ultimecia posseses Adel (whos not such a nice person to begin with) to accomplish this but after Laguna and friends put Adel out of commision, Ultimecia jumps to Edea, but SeeD having defeated Edea many times causes her to go with Rinoa.Smart choice because of the relationship she has with Squall and the rest of the gang perhaps thinking that relationship will serve to protect Rinoa as she uses her.

Like I said, Adel is looking for little girls to be her successor in the past and not a specific girl but later her soldiers just captured Ellone and send her to Esthar.

Odine studied her and find her special and Adel changed her plan.

Correct me if I am wrong on the part above.

But if it is what you say in your post, then why is there a 10 years gap in between? Why do she take action only 10 years after not immediately when Adel is out of commission as you say in your post, she jumped to Rinoa after Edea is defeated.

[Squall of SeeD]

3.Ultimecia posseses Adel (whos not such a nice person to begin with) to accomplish this but after Laguna and friends put Adel out of commision, Ultimecia jumps to Edea, but SeeD having defeated Edea many times causes her to go with Rinoa.Smart choice because of the relationship she has with Squall and the rest of the gang perhaps thinking that relationship will serve to protect Rinoa as she uses her.

Like I said, Adel is looking for little girls to be her successor in the past and not a specific girl but later her soldiers just captured Ellone and send her to Esthar.

Odine studied her and find her special and Adel changed her plan.

Correct me if I am wrong on the part above.

But if it is what you say in your post, then why is there a 10 years gap in between? Why do she take action only 10 years after not immediately when Adel is out of commission as you say in your post, she jumped to Rinoa after Edea is defeated.

It's a bit too convenient that both Ultimecia and Adel were obsessed with Ellone. The whole "seeking a successor" thing was likely a cover up for what she really wanted: Ellone specifically. Recall that the Esthari soldiers kill Ellone's parents for not giving her up, and they later come back for her. If Adel was just seeking a random girl, it would make sense that she would have had a bunch of girls brought to her from whom she could select the one she wanted as her successor. Yet she seemed to specifically want Ellone, and seemed very annoyed that the girl had been taken from her by the Adel Resistance.

As for why it took her five years to take Edea, that's a good question.

[beaglegod]

Odine studied her and find her special and Adel changed her plan.

Ah ok, so basicaly Adel was engaged in a common practice of searching for a succesor, and thats how Elones powers were discovered initialy.Adel became interested in Elones powers of time travel.

Later on Ultemecia put her conciousness into Adel in order to carry out her own plans, after wich Adel was imprisoned. Is that kinda sorta what your saying?

[Christmas]

It's a bit too convenient that both Ultimecia and Adel were obsessed with Ellone. The whole "seeking a successor" thing was likely a cover up for what she really wanted: Ellone specifically. Recall that the Esthari soldiers kill Ellone's parents for not giving her up, and they later come back for her. If Adel was just seeking a random girl, it would make sense that she would have had a bunch of girls brought to her from whom she could select the one she wanted as her successor.

You know, considering Ellone is the only little girl left in the town....
So maybe the other little girls are killed or captured then rejected and disposed of.

Yet she seemed to specifically want Ellone, and seemed very annoyed that the girl had been taken from her by the Adel Resistance.

That is after Odine researched her and Adel came to know her power, right?

As for why it took her five years to take Edea, that's a good question.

Maybe I will answer this myself. Ultimecia has the junction machine Ellone so she can send her consious to the past so she just went back to 10 years later after Adel's event and possess Edea. But this dun make sense too since why will she do such a meaningless thing?

Ah ok, so basicaly Adel was engaged in a common practice of searching for a succesor, and thats how Elones powers were discovered initialy.Adel became interested in Elones powers of time travel.

Later on Ultemecia put her conciousness into Adel in order to carry out her own plans, after wich Adel was imprisoned. Is that kinda sorta what your saying?

Not really. Ultimecia didn't possess Adel at all in the past.Adel just do all the stuff on her own will since she is just evil by nature. But this is just my views and I can't say yours is wrong either.

[Sir Bahamut]

You know, considering Ellone is the only little girl left in the town....
So maybe the other little girls are killed or captured then rejected and disposed of.

Well, even if we assume Ellone was the only girl left, there are other towns in the world of FF8 with many more little girls. Why do we see none of them? Although there's bound to be other potential sorceresses elsewhere in the world, Adel specifically goes for Ellone alone.

That is after Odine researched her and Adel came to know her power, right?

Depends. If you assume Ultimecia was possessing Adel, then she knew of her power before Odine did his research. If not, then your explanation can fit.

Maybe I will answer this myself. Ultimecia has the junction machine Ellone so she can send her consious to the past so she just went back to 10 years later after Adel's event and possess Edea. But this dun make sense too since why will she do such a meaningless thing?

This is only a problem depending on what view you have on time in FF8.
If you believe you can change the past, then this makes no sense. After all, Ultimecia could have gone back and possessed Adel again before she was sealed up, except this time she'd know that they would be trying to fool her, so she could easily change things so she didn't get sealed up, enabling her to keep on doing research on Ellone. One possible solution to this could be that she didn't want to wait around for Ellones powers to awaken within her, soe she figured she'd look for her when she was more grown up.

If you however believe you can't change the past, then there would be no gap inbetween these two events. Immediately after Adel was sealed up, Ultimecia'd jump to Edea, and that'd be that.

But also in that scenario you might ask why she doesn't go back and try and change things(assuming that Ultimecia doesn't realise that you can't change the past). One possible answer is that possessing Adel again would result in Adel having not one, but TWO Ultimecias inside her! Perhaps this would be too much of a strain.

I'm not sure though...

[Future Esthar]

It's a bit too convenient that both Ultimecia and Adel were obsessed with Ellone. The whole "seeking a successor" thing was likely a cover up for what she really wanted: Ellone specifically. Recall that the Esthari soldiers kill Ellone's parents for not giving her up, and they later come back for her. If Adel was just seeking a random girl, it would make sense that she would have had a bunch of girls brought to her from whom she could select the one she wanted as her successor. Yet she seemed to specifically want Ellone, and seemed very annoyed that the girl had been taken from her by the Adel Resistance.

As for why it took her five years to take Edea, that's a good question.

Agreed with you for the first time Squall of Seed.

[Christmas]

Well, even if we assume Ellone was the only girl left, there are other towns in the world of FF8 with many more little girls. Why do we see none of them? Although there's bound to be other potential sorceresses elsewhere in the world, Adel specifically goes for Ellone alone.

But i would say Adel specifically goes for Winhill.
Let's just say why is Winhill picked in the first place? Why not just pick someone from Esthar to save the trouble. And why is Galbadian soldiers deloyed to the town just for the sake of one little girl?

I reckon the Adel might have a sense of feeling that the right one is in Winhill and specifically kidnapped the little girls there till Ellone is left.

But also in that scenario you might ask why she doesn't go back and try and change things(assuming that Ultimecia doesn't realise that you can't change the past), is that possessing Adel again would result in Adel having not one, but TWO Ultimecias inside her! Perhaps this would be too much

Or maybe she just possessed some unknown sorceress that is hiding somewhere in the world and they messed up her plan until 10 years later she finally found Edea? (.......This isn't making sense.....and I begining to sound like Future... )

As what I read in the tutorial, there might be some sorceress hidden unknown to the public.

But after the weighing all the right and wrong, from what I see, especially from the 10 years gap question, Adel is independant?

Once again, correct me if I am wrong.

[Sir Bahamut]

I reckon the Adel might have a sense of feeling that the right one is in Winhill and specifically kidnapped the little girls there till Ellone is left.

Perhaps, but it's a little bit too odd for my taste that the girl she happens to single put in her search is Ellone, the very person Ultimecia is searching for.

Anyway, the gap between them is, as I said, only a problem in a time which can be altered. Personally, I believe all of time in FF8 is set in stone, which means it's not actually that big a problem.

As for a conclusion, I'm not sure if there is one good conclusion to this...

[Christmas]

Perhaps, but it's a little bit too odd for my taste that the girl she happens to single put in her search is Ellone, the very person Ultimecia is searching for.

Since she is the only one left in town, she has to be the one, isn't it?
But I still interpret as she specifically went for Winhill instead of Ellone. That is me that is.

As for a conclusion, I'm not sure if there is one good conclusion to this...

I do agree...

[GunbladeMaster]

I was thinking about this after reading all the R=U theories and i came up with this one:

As we all no squall and friends go on a jouney to defeat ultemicia, etc and then later kill her. Then rinoa goes insane after she cant find squall in their promised place so she uses her powers and TC and goes to the far future (or she lived a long life) and then tries to find her long lost love but during the time gap she forgets about him and only wants to control all time thus TC.

While Ulti travels thru time she ends up in the time period at which she actually became wat she is today (ff8 story) and it repeats itself again with squall killing her, rinoa goin insane, time goin in a circle.

PHEW! ok done

[crazybayman]

I was thinking about this after reading all the R=U theories and i came up with this one:

As we all no squall and friends go on a jouney to defeat ultemicia, etc and then later kill her. Then rinoa goes insane after she cant find squall in their promised place so she uses her powers and TC and goes to the far future (or she lived a long life) and then tries to find her long lost love but during the time gap she forgets about him and only wants to control all time thus TC.

While Ulti travels thru time she ends up in the time period at which she actually became wat she is today (ff8 story) and it repeats itself again with squall killing her, rinoa goin insane, time goin in a circle.

PHEW! ok done

SSSSHHHHHH!! You're going to wake Future Esthar!!
This has all been brought up before, and debated to a great extent.
The consensus, and side with the strongest arguments, is that there just isn't enough proof within the game to support this.

It is an interesting theory, however highly unlikely. If this were true, don't you think it would have made for an amazing plot twist? One certainly that would have been worthy of mention in the game's dialogue.

[Rand Al'Tor]

I was thinking about this after reading all the R=U theories and i came up with this one:

As we all no squall and friends go on a jouney to defeat ultemicia, etc and then later kill her. Then rinoa goes insane after she cant find squall in their promised place so she uses her powers and TC and goes to the far future (or she lived a long life) and then tries to find her long lost love but during the time gap she forgets about him and only wants to control all time thus TC.

While Ulti travels thru time she ends up in the time period at which she actually became wat she is today (ff8 story) and it repeats itself again with squall killing her, rinoa goin insane, time goin in a circle.

PHEW! ok done

SSSSHHHHHH!! You're going to wake Future Esthar!!
This has all been brought up before, and debated to a great extent.
The consensus, and side with the strongest arguments, is that there just isn't enough proof within the game to support this.

Well... I would say the consensus is that we agree to disagree, and that there is no hard proof for the R=U theory, except what we supporters consider foreshadowing and hints.

It is an interesting theory, however highly unlikely. If this were true, don't you think it would have made for an amazing plot twist? One certainly that would have been worthy of mention in the game's dialogue.

I certainly DO think it's an awesome plot twist (which is part of the reason I believe it) but Squaresoft might very well have decided to be (too?) subtle about it. After all, they do like to be... circumspect about things. Heck, even the generally accepted 'Laguna is Squall's father is never actually SAID. Heck, maybe they PURPOSEFULLY were vague about it. Leaving the players in doubt. Similiar to the FF VII 'did humanity get wiped out or not?' question. (which is answered now it seems with the movie)

[Sir Bahamut]

Rand: You should know that the technical aspect of the theory, ie. can Rinoa live long enough to become Ultimecia question, will be put to rest soon. SquallOfSeeD here will soon be getting an Ultimania which will probably(hopefully!) settle the matter once and for all.

[crazybayman]

but Squaresoft might very well have decided to be (too?) subtle about it. After all, they do like to be... circumspect about things. Heck, even the generally accepted 'Laguna is Squall's father is never actually SAID. Heck, maybe they PURPOSEFULLY were vague about it. Leaving the players in doubt. Similiar to the FF VII 'did humanity get wiped out or not?' question. (which is answered now it seems with the movie)

There were many blatant hints dropped throughout the game, indicating that Laguna is Squall's father.

For example, Squall and Raine bear the same last name, and Laguna was with Raine for a time, while she was looking after Ellone. Laguna left, after which Raine realized she was pregnant, had the baby, but died before Ellone could find Laguna to tell him. After Raine died, Ellone and Squall were sent to the orphanage. Doesn't that tell you that Squall is from Winhill, and that he is most likely Raine's, and therefore Laguna's child.

As well, there's the scene on the Ragnarok with Kiros and Ward saying "good thing you don't look like your father", "You look more like your mother", things reserved only for someone they know very well, i.e. Laguna.....

There are, however, not one even remote hint that R=U. If it were the case, you can bet that it would have been hinted at in the dialogue and/or storyline, somewhere.