Which of these theories fit better the storyline?

[Future Esthar]

Don´t make stupid comparisons Khaotic.
The Julia=Ulti is as valid as LRS as I had showed up on post 112.

[UWAOOOOU]

Don´t make stupid comparisons Khaotic.
The Julia=Ulti is as valid as LRS as I had showed up on post 112.

People have already proved you wrong and Ive already reminded you. You just ignored that post and logic several times. You;re being really petty to try to prove your theories all of which are false.

[Future Esthar]

You are the ones ignoring my questions on LRS.
I proved you wrong with the same kind of logic you proved me wrong.
Please consider answering to post 112.

[Abraxas]

Stop wondering Future Esthar!

I AM ULTIMECIA !!!!!

I possessed Abraksas and now I'll go to your home at night and pull your feet while you're sleepink!
That is what you deserve by all your wasted fingerwork!!!!!!!!
Be prepared!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Khaotic]

Oh, ok so my theories are now stupid just becaue I think they're right and you dont care to believe me, hmph. You see my point, once again is, you look at my theories as stupid, as do we to yours.

[Abraxas]

FUTURE ESTHAR... I'm approaching your home as we speak....
HA HA HA...
Now the earth (and this forum) will be free of you!!!
And you'll be my slave for ever!!!!!!
I'm wondering what your tasks will be... maybe convincing the world that Michael Jackson, Boy George and me are the same person...
MU HA HA HA HAHAAA!!!!

[UWAOOOOU]

Am I ignoring your posts?
You also ignores mines.

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.
Unless you think it is Julia´s twin sister this led to the conclusion that she is Julia.

6) This final point isn't a very good argument, but it fits in neatly if we assume Laguna is Squalls father:

Laguna has Squalls card.

So Headmaster Cid was Seifer´s fathers,no?
And Ellone is also Laguna´s daughter,no?

5) The tutorial tells us that Moombas recognize people by licking their blood.

In jail, a Moomba calls Squall "Laguna" many times. This means Squalls blood was so similar to Lagunas that it fooled the Moomba.

That kind of scene isn't just put in there for randomness, nor to prove that Moombas are mentally unstable.

Well, I can had met Arnold Schwartznegger at the past and being a great fan of him.
And then I could be a doctor making DNA test.
If you consult-me to know the results and I just say "Schwartznegger"
did this mean you are his sun?
What about if I was thinking on him when I give you the results and yelled that word out of joy?It can happen,specially considering animals tend to be very expressive.
And scenes like the picture on Ulti´s castle weren´t put there for randomness also.

4) Talk to Kiros and Ward in the Ragnarok, and Ward will say "Good thing you don't look like your father" in a joking manner,
Kiros says "you look more like your mother".

Kiros and Ward know the parents, and the father well enough to make fun of him jokingly.
Who fits into this description then?

As someone said on the forums they can already know Squall´s fathers and talk about them to Squall.There are so many persons on the world of FF8.

3) In the Ragnarok, Laguna tellls Squall that "Ellone has told me everything" and "We'll talk when this is all over".

Since Ellone had just stopped her quest to get Laguna to see his newborn child, one would expect her to tell all about the child to Laguna, and it seems rather farfetched that she refused to give him the true identity.

This would also have been basically the most important thing Ellone would tell Laguna, so it seems plausible that he is going to talk to Squall on the same issue.

Everything about you being the ones that were sent to their heads.
Maybe Laguna will tell him who were his parents.But it doesn´t mean it was him and Raine.

1) Laguna = Lagoon. Raine = Rain. Squall = Brief windstorm, usually with snow or rain.

All these names are connected, they are all to do with water.

So I know what´s the name of Raine´s child.It is FLOODINGLAKE.

Really,if my fathers name was Firaté and my mother Firagá should my name be Fireman?

Really,this doesn´t mean nothing.

2) Raine and Laguna had a child together. That child was sent to the orphanage

The children in the orphanage at that time were as we all know, Squall, Seifer, Ellone, Quistis, Zell, Irvine and Selphie.

Ellone is the adoptive sister to that newborn child, and spends a significant part of her life trying to get Laguna back to Raine and this child.

Coincidentally, who is the one person in the orphanage who Ellone is closely attached to? Squall.

Also notice how none of the other children are paid attention to at all when it comes to this plot question, and seeing as how it is a very relevant part of the game, you'd think Square didn't just decide to drop it completely.

This one is a difficult to rebuttle.
First,there were many children at the orphanage.
Second,she brought the children to the orphanage.But can´t she just start to have a special relation to a children other than the one she brought from the orphanage?Is it impossible at all?
What about if this children was developed by Square just to justify Ellone sending our heros counscience to the past so that Laguna would come to know this child?

Esthar, its obvious to everyone but you that Square clearly went out of there way to make it as BLATANTLY OBVIOUS as possible that theyre Squalls parents without making it fact. Besides some of your arguments are really genuinely stupid. Like moombas just happenning to yell Laguna when theyre happy :rolleyes2 That evidence is proof enough that hes Lagunas son and the only woman Laguna is known to have had a child with in the game is Raine hence by logical default theyre his parents. Besides that piece of fact proving the theory to be superior than your badly put together fanfiction most of the things you argued against were references for the more intelligent (or not seriously....slow)players of FFVIII. Its not your fault really...

It was made clear to you that the card thing was a reference and admitted not to be a good argument but you ignored that to try and make it look stupid to try and put your half assed theorys in a better light.

About the Kiros and Ward thing, In a video game as you've continually failed to understand is that if the game doesnt suggest it then its not true. Your argument oncve again falls short. Plus Squall even does look like Raine and even has a bit of her bad mood.

With what Laguna says to Squall, He says that to Squall in particular, not the whole team. What would Ellone tell Laguna concerning Squall in particular, Ellone being the one who knows the child and more than anyone else, the mysteries surroung it. Blatantly obvious without stating it.

The name reference was obvious to "just about" anyone a reference and wasnt intended as proof as far as I can see.

The last piece, Ellone was popular enough at the orphanage but the only child who the game made her out to be close to was Squall who looked to her as a sister more than anyone else at the orphanage. Considering the game never suggested she was overly close to any other child and she knew who her much loved step parents child was then yeah its pretty blatant Squall is the child.

Also to add to Ellone trying to get Squall back to Laguna Ellone always put Squall in Lagunas body in the dream world. Add all that together you not only get a blood test confirming hes Lagunas son but you get something close to a 100% explanation.

[sparkie]

Ok I said I wouldn't... but I need to.

I basically proofed Julia was Ulti.
And also that Ulti was possessed.

You can't "basically" prove something. :rolleyes2


Let's consider that it IS a portrait of Ultimecia. Your J=U theory is so weak in itself that there is no point in assuming the portrait is Julia! This makes your graphical "proof" obsolete. Like I said before, why don't you prove one theory before moving on to the next?

And quite frankly, the chances of Future hitting on a winning theory are about the same chances as Saddam Hussein winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

Good comparison.

I had as many proof as that Ulti=Julia than you had to LRS
(i.e convincent ones but not 100% accurate).

Um, no you didn't. If you had looked at LRS, you would see it had more than just 3 things to back it up. And they weren't based purely on assumptions and interpretations.

If not show me wrong.
I did like to.
This is the very reason I open this thread.
And as I said earlier.Majority don´t means veracity.
I can be right and you all be wrong.That´s not important.

Wow you are really self-centered to be that much in denial. Why do you even make polls if you don't care what anyone else thinks? All you want to do is argue that everyone else is wrong and that you are the lone genius who has debunked the mystery of the game.

You don´t even backed up your theories better than I had backed mine.

IF YOU WOULD READ THE FREAKIN POSTS YOU WOULD SEE THAT YOUR THEORY HAS BEEN DISPROVEN ALREADY.

You had yet to prove to me that characters dialogues were more important than graphical details in stating thruth on FF8.I am waiting.

Ok I'll humor you:
Graphics are much more discrete, making it a lot easier to mistake things. In a dialogue, you KNOW what is being said, word for word. Proof:

I said that the picture looks like Julia TOTTALY.
Not only on some details but TOTTALY.

Well? How do you explain how you are the only one who thinks it looks like her when no one else does? And even if it DID look like her, it would still prove nothing because many characters look alike in games and no one knows where the painting came from, how old it is or why it's there. What are the chances that it is Julia from all the red clothed, black-haired, orgain owning people that lived from her time period to Ultimecia's? Slim to NONE.

And don´t say it happened on other FF games.Be honest enough to not use this argument.Everyone knows FF8 is different.

Yeah, we do. Which is why YOU shouldn't use other games/movies/etc. to back up your theories (ex: FFVII, Tomb Raider, Matrix). :rolleyes2

The Hyne/Yu Yevon thing? I backed up it and you didn't rebuttle so like you said "to keep quiet is to agree".

I guess he agrees with a lot of things we've said then, huh?

I proved you wrong with the same kind of logic you proved me wrong.

Dude, you proved yourself wrong with your own logic way too many times to count.

Proving theories isn't about believing what is least possible, but what is MOST likely. Your logic is warped, Future. You don't know what you're saying. Even if someone in the game had said, "Squall is Laguna's son" you would just say that person was lying. You KNOW you would. Even though there is proof, right in front of you. You just refuse to believe facts and go with whatever you want to believe. Everyone can see that. And why the heck are you disputing LRS when you YOURSELF said that it was proven and that you were convinced???

I proofed that Julia was Ulti.
You proofed that Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

No one asked you to rebuttle it in the first place. But yet again, you did choose to ignore like 20 posts before you that questioned your own theory. Surprise surprise.


And why is he now saying he wants to "forget about J=U for now"? Because there is too much overwhelming evidence stacked against him! Maybe he is starting to crack (in the good sense ).

[Christmas]

Didn't I said picture interpretation can't be valid? I said it ages ago and you told me to prove LRS theory but why must I?

I didn't said Laguna and Raine are Squall's parents but I do agree Hyne is Yu Yevon in disguise and Narrator insist he is not gay.

In case you "forget" again, I told you anyone can have their own interpretations of portrait and this is my interpretation.

XERAMPELINAE(Red clothes)- Ultimecia's ancestor's portrait
VENUS(Love) - Love is what make the world bleed
VIGIL(Watchmen) - The guardian monsters of the castle
INTERVIGILIUM (Sleep) - The sleep magic
JUDICIUM (Judgment) - Alexandria Holy Judgement
IGNUS (Fire) - The Fire magic in the game
VIVIDARIUM (Garden) - The Garden of SeeD
INANDANTIA (Flood) - Leviathan Tidal wave attack
VIATOR (Messenger) - Diablo's dark messenger attack
INAUDAX (Cowardice) - Biggs and Wedge
XIPHIAS (Swordfish) - Gunblade
XYSTUS (Tree-Lined Road) - Fisherman Horizons

Big Picture: In A Garden Sleeps A Messenger:

Diablos sleeps inside the magical lamp which is given in Balamb garden,

See? Anyone can have their own interpretations so your interpretation theory isn't valid so you can't prove Julia= Ultimecia.

[Abraxas]

Come on! Why to bother to reply Future Esthar arguments?
It's like trying to convince a baby that pooping is awful.
For me is obvious that he just want to laugh at you and take all your brains to the limit...

I tried to post this now I'm free, but who knows if Ultimecia possess me again soon! How scary!

[liamo]

did you know that final fantasy VIII is really final fantasy III's world a few hundred years later

[Future Esthar]

did you know that final fantasy VIII is really final fantasy III's world a few hundred years later

.

Don´t get surprised if they call you stupid or say that you need to go to a therapist.
They think only their theories were right and other persons were more stupid than them.
What a bunch of arrogants.They never make a theory prooved.

IF YOU WOULD READ THE FREAKIN POSTS YOU WOULD SEE THAT YOUR THEORY HAS BEEN DISPROVEN ALREADY.

I read then and found no ones that disprove it.
To say I can´t proof it is not to disprove it.
Maybe you can post them here and I will see what were the ones that disprove?

"Ulti could be a sorceress taking over the castle of a queen"
This is not suggested by the game.Nor it suggest the opposite.Words back,I would say it sugest because of the graphical details.
The first one is suggested by nothing.
Not even the game script says Ulti is not the queen of her castle.
"It´s an art gallery"
Queens make portraits of themselves.
That portrait is nowhere on the castle.
So that portrait must be of the queen of this castle.
It don´t matters if it is an art gallery or not.
If the queen created an art gallery is just because she don´t wanna her picture lie on the walls of the castle.She wanna to have fame and put it on an art gallery to be purposedly seen,who knows.
"The picture looks nothing like Julia"
Tell me then the differences you see.
Look,Julia don´t appears on FMV´s and her face was not so detailed as the character ones.
And obviouly the dress she uses on Deling City were not the ones she dress on the picture.It´s just that she likes to dress red.

And yes,LRS is based on assumptions because there is no dialogue on the game saying Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

Ellone sends Squall to Laguna´s head because they were both in leadership positions.By the way,many times you can change the conexions.That´s another possibility.

And yes,the Moomba could had known Laguna and yell´s "Laguna" to Squall.I know many birds that just do this(sorry,don´t know the English name).

[bipper]

I have been listening Future, and i think the lot is interesting enough.

Bipper

[crazybayman]

Don´t get surprised if they call you stupid or say that you need to go to a therapist.
They think only their theories were right and other persons were more stupid than them.
What a bunch of arrogants.They never make a theory prooved.

Now now, no need to act like a child.

Personally Esthar, I haven't proved a theory, because I haven't made a theory. Do you know why that is? Because I have better things to do. And so should you. These theories are just making you look like a fool.

So that portrait must be of the queen of this castle.
It don´t matters if it is an art gallery or not.
If the queen created an art gallery is just because she don´t wanna her picture lie on the walls of the castle.She wanna to have fame and put it on an art gallery to be purposedly seen,who knows.
(to be edited)

Hello...........Just because there's a picture of a woman, in a red dress with dark hair in Ultimecia's castle doesn't mean that its a picture of her. It could be, but we can't be certain of that. It could be an ancestor of hers, or just someone entirely different. There is NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER THAT THIS IS ULTI, OR JULIA FOR THAT MATTER.

Btw, it isn't mentioned once in the game that she is a queen. She's a sorceress, who lives in a castle. If she was a Queen, she there would be a good chance that she rules over people as a political figure. However there is no notion of that. No one says she is a queen, except you, which again is another assumption you've pulled out of your a$$.

And obviouly the dress she uses on Deling City were not the ones she dress on the picture.It´s just that she likes to dress red.

This is no indication that J=U. How many women in the FFVIII world, over the ages dress in red? More than you or I can count. I say over the ages because who knows what year this painting is from, its not necessarily from Ulti's era.

And yes,LRS is based on assumptions because there is no dialogue on the game saying Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers.

Then what does Kiros mean when he says "Good thing you don't look like your father. You look more like your mother." Obviously to joke about that, they would have to know them well, and of course he knoew Laguna very well.

Laguna and Raine had a child in Winhill. Laguna left to search for Ellone, and Raine died and the child wound up in an orphanage with Ellone.

Now, what child at the orphanage was close to Ellone, and was from Winhill? Squall. Is this coincidence? No. Especially because he is the ONLY character to fit these descriptions.

Ellone sends Squall to Laguna´s head because they were both in leadership positions.By the way,many times you can change the conexions.That´s another possibility.

I suppose this is possible, but HIGHLY UNLIKELY. For that matter, why not send Squall to General Caraway's, or Cid's body? They were both leaders. Squall is sent to Laguna's body, because Ellone wants to reunite father and son, and let the son see why his father was gone.

And yes,the Moomba could had known Laguna and yell´s "Laguna" to Squall.I know many birds that just do this(sorry,don´t know the English name).

What relevance would this have to the game, if this were the case? NONE. He thinks its Laguna because he licks his blood, and senses Laguna because they are of the same genetics.

Your arguments here must be some of your worst yet.

[Jessweeee♪]

all of them are false except for laguna and raine being squall's parents

Here: Laguna and Raine are married at some point (it shows laguna's memory of this at the ending) 17 years ago laguna goes off to esthar while raine dies giving birth to their son (note that squall is 17) laguna stays in esthar as president probably unaware that raine had been pregnant.

On the ragnarok laguna says "i've got a lot to say to you" or something like that, Kiros says "you look alot like your mother" and ward says (kiros translates) "good thing you don't look like your father" obviously a joke.
so...it makes perfect sense and i guess that would make ellone his foster sister.