X-Death and the Wonderful World of Final Fantasy V (VERY long)

[bipper]

Well, the void seemed to actually have stuff in it. So I am not sure how the void can be actually rationalized as nothingness.

Why would one be attracted to the power of nothingness? The mere power to consume?

Why would the Void actually create exdeath, or allow such a thing to exist? For such a force that wants nothingness, creating somthing to carry out this goal seems very back asswards.

To me, I think that the worlds of Final Fantasy V and 9 should be looked at a lot more closley. The world that Kuja destroys and Gaia seem to have much in common with world 1 and world 2.

I still find the significance of the void's likeness to space to be very staggering.

All I have for now

Bip

[ThroneofDravaris]

Well, the void seemed to actually have stuff in it. So I am not sure how the void can be actually rationalized as nothingness.

I think you’re confusing the Void with the Clelf of Dimensions. The Cleft is only the chamber that stores the Void, it isn’t the Void itself. When the Void appears in the game (ie, those massie black globe things) it is obvious that it is intended to portray ‘nothingness’.

Why would one be attracted to the power of nothingness? The mere power to consume?

It is apparent within the game that X-Death has no idea what the Void is (Re: His final lines) and how to use it. He mealy sees it as a tool for world domination, unaware of it’s true nature.

Why would the Void actually create exdeath, or allow such a thing to exist? For such a force that wants nothingness, creating somthing to carry out this goal seems very back asswards.

The thing is, the Void didn’t create X-Death.

Guido: About 500 years ago, an evil spirit sealed in the Mua Forest turned one
of the trees into a monster. The tree is Exdeath.

As you can see, it was not the Void, but some completely different entity which created X-Death. Some believe that the spirit is Enuo, but this is impossible as Enuo was absorbed by the Void, not trapped in the forest.

To me, I think that the worlds of Final Fantasy V and 9 should be looked at a lot more closley. The world that Kuja destroys and Gaia seem to have much in common with world 1 and world 2.

I’ll get on it

I still find the significance of the void's likeness to space to be very staggering.

That may be because representing the Void as a space or vacuum like matter was the easiest way to portray nothingness.

[bipper]

I think you’re confusing the Void with the Clelf of Dimensions. The Cleft is only the chamber that stores the Void, it isn’t the Void itself. When the Void appears in the game (ie, those massie black globe things) it is obvious that it is intended to portray ‘nothingness’.

nope, What is getting me is the consant referance to the void = space. Whenever in the void, there would be zero light. In bot V and 9, the void is seen as being very space like. In V when the warriors of Dawn + king Tycoon send whoever dies in the final battle back and when the final dialog takes place,people are shown in the void. so I thought.

Once one enters the void, it would merly be defeated. The Idea of void is very primative, and I just dont think that the primative definition fits what we are looking at.

I see my confusion was caused by thinking x-zone was a spell that would send an enemy to the void; but as exdeath says when he casts the spell on gilglimesh, he claims that he is sent to the cleft of dimension.

It is apparent within the game that X-Death has no idea what the Void is (Re: His final lines) and how to use it. He mealy sees it as a tool for world domination, unaware of it’s true nature.

His final lines on my emulator must be different. He says somthing like I can't die untill i get the power of the void.. wh.. whats this.. is this the blah blah somthing.. I can look it up later.

The thing is, the Void didn’t create X-Death.

As you can see, it was not the Void, but some completely different entity which created X-Death. Some believe that the spirit is Enuo, but this is impossible as Enuo was absorbed by the Void, not trapped in the forest.

Guido: About 500 years ago, an evil spirit sealed in the Mua Forest turned one
of the trees into a monster. The tree is Exdeath.

That is what all gets me. The ambiguous beginings of it all. How much longer before this was the world seperated, what could that spirit of been, and what is that tree at the end of the game. The ancient tree shirne which held the seal, and all four of world 2's hidden crystals etc

Bipper

[ThroneofDravaris]

nope, What is getting me is the consant referance to the void = space. Whenever in the void, there would be zero light. In bot V and 9, the void is seen as being very space like. In V when the warriors of Dawn + king Tycoon send whoever dies in the final battle back and when the final dialog takes place,people are shown in the void. so I thought.

This is not the Void. The Void is not a dimension per say, despite the fact that people are said to be ‘sucked into’ it. The Void is a destructive force that destroys everything that is ‘sucked into’ it, rather than trapping them in an ultimate dimension. When the Warriors of the Crystal return, X-Daeth does not say ‘how did you get back?” but rather “Why did the Void disappear?”. This implies that they were saved before they were sucked into the Void, and what we see of them all lying down must either be a transition faze, or another area entirely that the warriors were teleported to in order to prevent them for being destroyed.

I see my confusion was caused by thinking x-zone was a spell that would send an enemy to the void; but as exdeath says when he casts the spell on gilglimesh, he claims that he is sent to the cleft of dimension.

X-Death did not have the power of the Void at this stage, so that’s why he was sent to the Cleft of Dimensions. Although that does raise the question of why he didn’t just use it on himself in order to reach the Void faster…

His final lines on my emulator must be different. He says somthing like I can't die untill i get the power of the void.. wh.. whats this.. is this the blah blah somthing.. I can look it up later.

His final lines in my version (I’m sure they’re the correct ones).

*the void begins to devour X-Death*
X-Death: WHY?! I had the power of Void! What IS Void?! ARGH!!!

EDIT:

That is what all gets me. The ambiguous beginings of it all. How much longer before this was the world seperated, what could that spirit of been, and what is that tree at the end of the game. The ancient tree shirne which held the seal, and all four of world 2's hidden crystals etc

1. The world was separated 1000 years previously, after the Enuo fiasco, so 500 yeas before X-Death’s creation.
2. Just like Neo X-Death, you can guess at its identity, but you will never get answers from the original game. Might get some more info in FFV: Advanced, but I doubt it.
3. The Tree you are Talking about is the Master Tree. It guards the seals that protect the crystals in the second world. It’s only real significance in the end is that it’s the place wear Galuf died.

[bipper]

This is not the Void. The Void is not a dimension per say, despite the fact that people are said to be ‘sucked into’ it. The Void is a destructive force that destroys everything that is ‘sucked into’ it, rather than trapping them in an ultimate dimension. When the Warriors of the Crystal return, X-Daeth does not say ‘how did you get back?” but rather “Why did the Void disappear?”. This implies that they were saved before they were sucked into the Void, and what we see of them all lying down must either be a transition faze, or another area entirely that the warriors were teleported to in order to prevent them for being destroyed.

To me, it seemed that the warriors were basically the crystals, as implied by the ending, thusly they could not be taken by the void. I am sure the warriors of dawn offered a lending hand, which may suggest the the wariors of dawn, were the powers of the old crystals?

I think the best description of the void you get is in the end of the game.

In the begining there was Void,
Then four spirits came
together in this Void...

The crystals were born
and the world was created.

Thus,
Hope gives the earth blessings,
Courage lights the flames,
Kindness makes water the source of life,
Pursuit lets wisdom ride the wind.

When the time comes that Void
shall agian envelope the world
if within peole live the four spirits,
Light shall again be born

Four spirits, Wandering through Void
Shall once again
give birth to light.

I think this really puts it into prespective that the warriors of Dawn, as thier names imply, are the beging suge of light that could drive back the void, and the warriors of the crystals are the ones whom symbolise and protect that light.

Here it seems like a good place to say that if things were sucked into the void, then the void must have some kind of relative force to the real world. I mean, heat goes to an area of less cold, so its only obvious the the void would have a 'vaccum' effect on things. This is part of what else confuses me. If exdeath had not gained the power of the void, why were various towns sucked into the void? To save the game designers from making new dialouge for the towns on world 3!? It all seems too convient

Also, the void seems to be a very close equivalant to some Judist (and christan) versions of hell. Simply an Abyss of blackness.

X-Death did not have the power of the Void at this stage, so that’s why he was sent to the Cleft of Dimensions. Although that does raise the question of why he didn’t just use it on himself in order to reach the Void faster…

Well, I simply meant to clarify this so no one down the line asked the question. I also think that merely getting to the cleft was not his issue, but gaining the worlds together to try to unseal the void.

edit: Also to add, the void could essentially eat up everything, and if the crystal's power was restored, everything would fall out of the void. This is shown at the end of FFV when the towns are all restored. The moogles also come back.
Bipper

[Masamune·1600]

To me, I think that the worlds of Final Fantasy V and 9 should be looked at a lot more closley. The world that Kuja destroys and Gaia seem to have much in common with world 1 and world 2.

I've actually taken a fairly thorough look at the similarities between FFV and FFIX. Refer to the section on Necron in the original post for similarities to Neo Ex-Death, and to my second post for an examination of the "multiple worlds" plot element.

nope, What is getting me is the consant referance to the void = space. Whenever in the void, there would be zero light. In bot V and 9, the void is seen as being very space like.

Not exactly. While "space" leads to the Crystal World in FFIX, there can be no "zero world" unless someone or something brings it about. Basically, as long as the Crystals exists, there is no "Void" in FFIX. Rather, Necron's purpose is to bring about the "zero world."

Unknown Voice: I exist for one purpose... To return everything back to
the zero world, where there is no life and no crystal to give life. In
a world of nothing, fear does not exist. This is the world that all
life desires.

This simple statement alone also deconstructs the notion that Kuja shattered the Crystal; were this the case, the zero world would have been achieved.

As far as FFV is concerned, the "space" look of the final area of the Cleft of Dimensions does not necessarily imply the Void. Rather, the Void is absolute negation, total nothingness. However, Enuo's original tampering likely embodied it with its consciousness, manifested in Neo Ex-Death. Given that Void, in this sense, is nothingness, it's inevitable that nothingness, its own reality, is what it would seek.

I still feel that due to the method in which the game classifies the Void (ie nothingness), Neo X-Death cannot be its physical manifestation. This would allow the void the power to create, its complete antithesis. It is possible that Neo X-Death is being directly controlled by the Void (as strange as that sounds, one can’t help but wonder how the Void could have a consciousness…) but at the very least, Neo X-Death (or the components that were used to form it) were already present within the void before the Warriors of Light arrive.

As to the matter of Neo Ex-Death, I've demonstrated previously that all evidence points to the entity being the very embodiment of the Void (refer to post 8). Consider what actually happens immediately following Ex-Death's defeat.

*the void begins to devour X-Death*
X-Death: WHY?! I had the power of Void! What IS Void?! ARGH!!!

What's significant here is the fact that the Void "begins to devour Ex-Death." The nullifying qualities of the Void are thus shown; immediately thereafter, Neo Ex-Death explicates his aims, which are identical to the purpose of the Void.

Neo-Exdeath: I am Neo-Exdeath! I shall erase all memory, all existence, all
dimensions. Then I too, shall disappear for, eternity!

Neo Ex-Death goes so far as to seek its own perpetual disappearance. No "monster" or other mysterious entity would logically seek this; only the Void itself would have such an interest in absolute nullification. Moreover, Neo Ex-Death, in its brief but significant lines, makes mention of erasing "all memory." In light of FFIX, such sentiments can be appreciated as truly embodying the desire to not exist.

The difficulty, it seems, is why the Void would have any sort of power of creation. The simple answer, however, is that it doesn't. The Void, as suggested by the ending lines, has always existed, but it is nonetheless a manufactured being; when Enuo first seeks its power, he alters it.

Guido: Yes. 1000 years ago, there was a powerful evil called Enuo. Enuo was
able to control the power of the Void. The battle raged on for a long time.
Eventually, using the 12 Legendary Weapons, the people defeated Enuo. But
they were not able to get rid of the Void that Enuo had created. The people
were left with no choice but to. split the Crystals into two. When the
Crystals that supported the world were split, the world split into two as
well. The space between the two worlds, called the Cleft of Dimension, was
where the people chose to seal the Void.

Guido's comments on Enuo suggest that the mysterious villain "[created] the Void." However, we know that the Void existed before Enuo.

In the begining there was Void,
Then four spirits came
together in this Void...

The crystals were born
and the world was created.

Moreover, Guido also suggests that it was at this point, 1,000 years prior to FFV, that it was necessary to split the world in order to seal the Void. This containment, it seems, was not necessary prior to Enuo's tampering. Thus, the Void itself, a seemingly begotten concept, became a threat 1,000 years before the game. Ex-Death, then, sought the powr of the Void, but was consumed by what he didn't understand. Neo Ex-Death, the embodiment of the Void, then had to be defeated. Bartz and the new Dawn Warriors were able to succeed where the precursor heroes of FFV failed, and "got rid" of the Void, manifested in Neo Ex-Death, the desire for nothingness and negation.

[Zeromus_X]

ive always thought of the void as just space, like outer space. (because at the end, you see stars and stuff.) the void looked kinda pretty to me...what with the stars and all.

but normally when i think of "void", i think of just whiteness, with nothing there. (i hope everyone knows what i mean.)