niger

[Teek]

should the good men do nothing?

In short: yes.

Cloud, we (those who agree with me) aren't moving, and neither are you. You've taken this subject and beaten over and over again. We, the people, choose not to help Africa. None of my money will ever go to fuel a corrupt government. I've asked you how the individual can help, and you have said that there is no way, but we must find a way somehow. You're losing your own argument. You either have no concept of the way the system works or you go above and beyond optimism to the point of lunacy regarding their situation.

I am hardly greedy, not selfish in the sense that you mean it, and would help out quite a bit. You fail to recognize that, and rest on the self-rigtheous supremacy that the people who produce - the strong - the able - the hated (i.e. America and any other free country) should sacrifice itself to a continent that has no way of rising above it.

It's the most pointless argument ever, and I hope that the people that support you don't realize the full extent of what they are supporting; I hope they are just idealistic-beyond-practicality.

Edit: You won't get banned, and if you do I will petition like hell to get you unbanned. You have weak-ass argumetns and tend to resort to name calling, but it's done in a classical flair that's hardly too insulting (for example, rather than calling me a dick, you call me a greedy capitalist, et cetera). So don't worry about it.

[Raistlin]

Sure, they could use help from outside. But they don't need it. They need to help themselves. And they sure as hell are not ENTITLED to any outside help.

And your theories on the Great Depression ignore one huge flaw: we LOST OUR ENTIRE ECONOMY, because of your damn socialist economic systems. We were forced to withdraw our loans from Europe because the loans meant NOTHING because the money was completely imaginary! People were rich in 1929 - on paper. The money was nonexistant.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

You speak as if you assume I do nothing to aid others. That is quite false. However, I feel I have the right to choose who and what I am going to help. I give so much of myself, both mentally, emotionally, physically, and monetarily, that it's a wonder I'm not insane right now. I don't feel I owe the world any more of my lifeblood, I've given it enough and I will continue to give it more, on my terms. I refuse to jump on the next bandwagon cause and give money directly to organizations that will do nothing but embezzle the riches.

The implication of your "good men" statement is that I am not good because I am declining to do... what is it you want me to do? You've not really given me a specific cause besides "we need to help Niger". I take exception to being preached to about my "responsibility" when nobody has even defined what my "responsibility" to a people who, while they need help, yes, are utterly unwilling to take steps to rectify their own problems. Frankly, I feel no strong compulsion to lend aid to people who are propogating a system of self-destruction, especially when any "aid" I might give will aid that self-same system that is causing all the problems. Really, I'd say come back when they seem willing to do something for themselves. THEN maybe I will help out.

[DocFrance]

Wow. An EotW thread in which I agree with a vast majority of the writers? This has to be a first.

Cloud, you're being extremely judgemental of others by calling them immoral and greedy just because they don't see things the way you do. Furthermore, you fail to see the reality of the situation in Africa. People are starving because the corrupt governments are withholding food from their people in order to keep them under control. You could continue to throw money at them until every country in the world hasn't a single penny, and it would only further line the pockets of African despots.

The whole sordid affair can be summed up by one simple saying: "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he will eat for the rest of his life."

[Rye]

The whole sordid affair can be summed up by one simple saying: "Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he will eat for the rest of his life."

Whoa, I was thinking of that quote reading this thread. That's true. You can throw money Africa, but it won't do anything unless you teach them to use the money in a beneficial way.

[Cloud No.9]

you can do little things to help as well as donating to charity. buying fair trade goods. avoiding american and european goos where possible. and don't worry about not supporting western farmers. they are all subsidised and so are guranteed a minimum price for the goods anyway.

[War Angel]

help for these people is life. and everyone deserves life.

Huh? That's like saying 'everyone deserves to be born'. These people were given birth to. Now, it's up to their parents, society and goverment to take care of them - not me. I'd help however I can, but it's still not my responsibility. Saying "Hi, please support me for the rest of my life along with millions of my kind for the rest of their lives, their children's lives, and their children's children's lives..." is really asking for too much. I do not and will not support parasites. I will be the first to help, if I spot a change in [b]mentality[b], that is, if they start the change in their life-styles themselves. Then, I'll give them money, spiritual aid, and whatever else they might need. But I will not do everything for them, and most CERTAINLY not give money in vain for their currupt leaders to take it and use it to conduct genocides.

[Cloud No.9]

"it's up to their parents, society and goverment" like it's up to the dog owner to take responsibilty of their dog. but walking away from it when it is tied to a tree is wrong.

and for the last time you can avoid giving money to dictators by giving to the right aid charities. and fair trade gives money straight to the farmers. and removing tarrifs and subsidies would give money right to the farmers. so yeah lots and lots of stuff to do.

i personally refuse to buy western goods and fair trade whenever possible. and i feel good about it. it hurts noone. it helps the poor folk. and so everyone is happy even the western farmers who get the subsidies if i buy the food or not.

[DocFrance]

You keep using this "dog tied to a tree" analogy. So say you go to untie the dog, and all it does is bite at you whenever you come near it. To make matters worse, when you finally do untie it, and you're bleeding all over, the dog does nothing but sit there as if it was still tied up. What do you do then? Is the dog still your responsibility? Are you "immoral" for walking away from it? I would hope not.

Of course, you're probably just going to ignore or misinterpret this post in order to fit your narrow beliefs.

[Shoden]

also the AIDS thing can be blamed on Catholicism catholics don't allow condoms

[Cloud No.9]

my beliefs are narrow because i believe in helping these people? then so be it. if having humanity left in me which forces me to act when i see millions upon millions of peple suffering then i have narrow beliefs. the rest of the apathetic world are perfectly open minded but let the suffering continue. oh such a crime i commit.

but the dog is still tied to a tree. the tarriffs and debt is still there. the people are still starving not from outside controlled factors but because of simple things like drought, plague, famine etc. in times of un-preventable disaster like this why do we not help? the dog is still tied to the tree right now but for god sake feed him while he is there.

[Teek]

my beliefs are narrow because i believe in helping these people? then so be it.

Um, no, your beliefs are narrow because you are doing more harm than good and then claim that you are helping humanity.

if having humanity left in me which forces me to act when i see millions upon millions of peple suffering then i have narrow beliefs.

I would call your ideals quite inhumane.

the rest of the apathetic world are perfectly open minded but let the suffering continue. oh such a crime i commit.

I am not apathetic, and I have an active mind, if not open to the first whims of a dictator (or a westerner who is mystical in his beliefs at best).

but the dog is still tied to a tree. the tarriffs and debt is still there. the people are still starving not from outside controlled factors but because of simple things like drought, plague, famine etc. in times of un-preventable disaster like this why do we not help?

Because there is nothing we can do short of war. Would you like America to step in and fight Africa, or will that be a greedy act of horrible selfish indulgence like it always is?

the dog is still tied to the tree right now but for god sake feed him while he is there.

And prolong its misery. No thanks. I am not that apathetic.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

The right charities? How will that help? As has been said countless times, you can throw money at a problem as long as you want, it's NOT going to go away.

[Raistlin]

"it's up to their parents, society and goverment" like it's up to the dog owner to take responsibilty of their dog. but walking away from it when it is tied to a tree is wrong.

But that's how you treat humans - as dogs that you must keep chained to make sure the stronger and faster don't eat more food than the rest.

and for the last time you can avoid giving money to dictators by giving to the right aid charities. and fair trade gives money straight to the farmers. and removing tarrifs and subsidies would give money right to the farmers. so yeah lots and lots of stuff to do.

I actually agree with this - but for different reasons. We should get rid of tariffs and subsidies completely - not because that would help anyone, but because any barriers to free trade is wrong.

my beliefs are narrow because i believe in helping these people? then so be it. if having humanity left in me which forces me to act when i see millions upon millions of peple suffering then i have narrow beliefs. the rest of the apathetic world are perfectly open minded but let the suffering continue. oh such a crime i commit.

It's not what you decide to do with your own life - it's your willingness to sacrifice other peoples' lives.

[Cloud No.9]

my ideals are inhuman and do more harm than good? how?

actually we can drop the trade tarrifs. a lovely peaceful method to help.

"And prolong its misery." oh that's nice that is. just let them starve so they don't suffer. or why don't we just nuke it?

the right charities aid directly. provide schools and education so these people can learn. provide wells and clean water for these peple to avoid cholera. provide the right tools and information so these people can farm properly and sustain themselves.

"But that's how you treat humans - as dogs that you must keep chained to make sure the stronger and faster don't eat more food than the rest." so would you agree with killing the runt of the litter?

"It's not what you decide to do with your own life - it's your willingness to sacrifice other peoples' lives." who's live does helping these countries sacrifice. even my refusal to by american and european goods hurts noone.