Margaret Thatcher

[Lindy]

Who said I was trying to insult you?

How is aiding the weakest member of a society heartless anyway, when the capitalist concept would just leave them in the gutter. And you just can't call socialism greedy, I mean, come on, what kind of brainwashing program were YOU raised on?

Anyway, England is neither capitalist, nor socialist, there is a modicum of government control over the key industries (though there should be more over some), and sensible controls over corporations (prevention of collusion and price fixing). The welfare state is a sensible thing, as is the idea of free healthcare for everyone. It's the nature of balance, neither one way nor the other.

I just don't see where you get the idea of being enslaved from, when in a society like Thatcher's we'd be slaves to the wage, with money being the entire focus of life.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

Cool it, people. Debating is fine, insulting is not.

[Teek]

How is aiding the weakest member of a society heartless anyway, when the capitalist concept would just leave them in the gutter. And you just can't call socialism greedy, I mean, come on, what kind of brainwashing program were YOU raised on?

I don't believe that the government has a right to my money, nor anyone's. It's a noble goal to help the poor, but it's done at the cost of rights to the individual in a socialistic enviornment, which is abhorrent. "Greedy" was perhaps not the right word, but certainly I don't believe that socialism is a form of government based on a love for man, no.

Anyway, England is neither capitalist, nor socialist, there is a modicum of government control over the key industries (though there should be more over some), and sensible controls over corporations (prevention of collusion and price fixing). The welfare state is a sensible thing, as is the idea of free healthcare for everyone. It's the nature of balance, neither one way nor the other.

Balance is better than pure socialism, of course, but that's only because the more capitalism, the better. Once again, it's less about the results of a government then the sacrifices it commits along the way. I don't think that the rich, who have earned their money, have to give a higher percentage of taxation because the poor demand it. That's inhumane to ask. The form of government I advocate is where each and every individual has the ability to go as far and high as they can. Which is, more or less, capitalism.

I just don't see where you get the idea of being enslaved from, when in a society like Thatcher's we'd be slaves to the wage, with money being the entire focus of life.

I'd rather not have to rely on a government who tells me how to live my life, that's all.

[tomamar04]

I'd rather not have to rely on a government who tells me how to live my life, that's all.

Believe me, your nation is brainwashed more than ours.

Yet another USA vs UK thread....

[Lindy]

This is getting too much now, it's a saturday night and I'm really not in the mood to debate systems of government.

Lets just agree to disagree.

[Teek]

This is getting too much now, it's a saturday night and I'm really not in the mood to debate systems of government.

Lets just agree to disagree.

Fair enough. But, let me deal with something else, if you don't mind.

Believe me, your nation is brainwashed more than ours.

Yet another USA vs UK thread....

I'm rather a fan of the UK: I'll make that clear now.

And how is the US more brainwashed?

[Lindy]

There's no point in arguing about the UK against the US, it's apples and oranges, I'd rather live in either country than, say, Ethiopia.

Just be happy with what you have, rather than trying to argue which country is better.

Anyway, I'm done, and thank you for respecting my wishes rather than pushing it, rare thing on the internet.

[Teek]

There's no point in arguing about the UK against the US, it's apples and oranges, I'd rather live in either country than, say, Ethiopia.

Agreed fully. The only question I would still like answered is how in the hell we're brainwahed masses in America. Is that a common misconception?

[Lindy]

All I can think of is that the news media in America is just a teensy bit on the side of scaremongering, at least from what I've seen anyway, watching broadcasts of ABC and CNN.

But then, it's only people who follow those like a religion that you could consider "brainwashed".

I consider Nazi Germany to be "brainwashing", and since neither the UK or US run under anything like that regime, I doubt you could say either country was brainwashed.

And hey look, I'm not done, damned internet, oh well.

[tomamar04]

I never said either was brainwashed, it's just how can you say the UK is brainwashed.

I feel the American government has more control over daily life than the UK government.

And why do you think the UK is brainwashed?

[Teek]

I never said either was brainwashed, it's just how can you say the UK is brainwashed.

I feel the American government has more control over daily life than the UK government.

And why do you think the UK is brainwashed?

I don't think the UK is "brainwashed", but I do think that the UK is under the same, er, "education" that the US is under. See, the people here in America are hardly being taught propaganda, though we recognize that there is some "propaganda" in our media. However, we have the freedom of press in the States, and therefore its' not really a product of our government, but a bunch of ass-kissing media people who produce scaremongering tactics.

Likewise, on the basis of capitalism v. socialism, it seems that the majority of people in the UK probably don't give a damn about issues like that, but most would say (without base) that socialism is just and ideal, and that capitalism is a greedy system. Likewise, in the states, among the common man who doesn't give a damn about any of this, it's still the prevaling idea that (without base, once again) capitalism is free and just, and that socialism is more-or-less a slave society.

Really, my argumentation is that the United States is hardly a hell of a lot worse than most other western civilizations. It's just that our subtle, "collective" political ideals centers more around capitalism, not socialism.

[jrgen]

The only freedom capitalism stands for is the economical freedom. If you live in a socialist or a capitalist country is completely irrelevant when it comes to social freedom. Personally I disagree with the idea that you have the right to "your money", which you "earned" yourself. There is no such thing as generating economical wealth. Everything you obtain is obtained on the expense of someone else, and I don't believe you have the right to have it any more than whoever turned slightly poorer by your success.

[Teek]

The only freedom capitalism stands for is the economical freedom. If you live in a socialist or a capitalist country is completely irrelevant when it comes to social freedom. Personally I disagree with the idea that you have the right to "your money", which you "earned" yourself. There is no such thing as generating economical wealth. Everything you obtain is obtained on the expense of someone else, and I don't believe you have the right to have it any more than whoever turned slightly poorer by your success.

Well, true, and I think freedom is the point. Which is why I am a Libertarian - I want a society that's based on both social and economic freedom.

And how is my making money at the expense of another? I rendered a service for it; I didn't steal it from their hands.

[nik0tine]

I feel the American government has more control over daily life than the UK government.

Isn't Britain the most heavily monitored country in the world?

[Itsunari 2000]

Haha ... who would've thought my tub-thumping could have provoked such fierce political debate... amusing.