America - Bastion of Evil???

[Madame Adequate]

There are wal-marts in europe, arn't there? I know there is a off shot of it in Scottland as one of my friends is moving there to work at a walmart store.

Thats right - the yankees are invading

Go pro america!

Bipper

Here in Britain, ASDA was bought by Wal*Mart a year or two ago. The only similarity is that the Rollback ad campaign or whatever is in both the US Wal*Mart and the UK ASDA, as it is still sadly called.

Now, if ASDA changed to Wal*Mart, and stocked Wal*Mart's range of goods at Wal*Mart's prices, the competition would be decimated. But our business regulations prevent business efficiency.

The businessmen are only able to "run" politics because the politicians are able to regulate businesses! HOW CAN NO ONE SEE THAT??? If the government couldn't regulate businesses, then the businesses couldn't have politicians in their pockets.

I don't know how many times I've made that point, but it never seems to sink in.

[Teek]

The businessmen are only able to "run" politics because the politicians are able to regulate businesses! HOW CAN NO ONE SEE THAT??? If the government couldn't regulate businesses, then the businesses couldn't have politicians in their pockets.

I don't know how many times I've made that point, but it never seems to sink in.

I think they can't imagine a really free government, so in this case of course they would think that a pro-business stance was bad - they can't imagine a society where the government stays the hell out of the way of business is possible.

By the way, Rasitlin, excellent point. As usual, you put what I was trying to say in much better, more expertly devised terms.

[Lionx]

I think if there was a truly free market that the government didnt run...then yeah it wouldnt work out. Soviets IMO showed that a free market in its purest form doesnt work. There has to be some regulation somewhere.

[Teek]

Soviets IMO showed that a free market in its purest form doesnt work. There has to be some regulation somewhere.

...uhm, dude, no offense, but you're getting confused. Raistlin (and others) are advocating lassiez-faire capitalism, and the Soviets were communists. They are on, like, two opposite ends of handling the "market" (which essentially doesn't exist in communism).

[Lionx]

Yes, in which their economy was bad. But when they adopted into the way of Democracy during the latter years of the Soviets screwed em over. Because of their mistreatment of people before, when people were allowed more freedoms they did whatever they wanted to against the government and screwed them over. So what i mean is that as long as both government and buisnessment check and balance each other, no one key buisness can screw over the nation as a whole. No one is holding a knife to the other's throat and willing to slash without taking harm to themselves in US, in which why its good.

[lordblazer]

Yes, in which their economy was bad. But when they adopted into the way of Democracy during the latter years of the Soviets screwed em over. Because of their mistreatment of people before, when people were allowed more freedoms they did whatever they wanted to against the government and screwed them over. So what i mean is that as long as both government and buisnessment check and balance each other, no one key buisness can screw over the nation as a whole. No one is holding a knife to the other's throat and willing to slash without taking harm to themselves in US, in which why its good.

Um yeah .Anyway the problem with the United States is.

They don't regulate business as well as they should.Read the constitution.The bill of rights apply to businesses and companies.WE treat them like artificial humans.Thus you have what we have today.Corporate society.

[Raistlin]

I think if there was a truly free market that the government didnt run...then yeah it wouldnt work out. Soviets IMO showed that a free market in its purest form doesnt work. There has to be some regulation somewhere.

Are you absolutely nuts? The Soviets were the exact opposite of a free market - they had a completely controlled economy. And you're right - it didn't work.

But when they adopted into the way of Democracy during the latter years of the Soviets screwed em over. Because of their mistreatment of people before, when people were allowed more freedoms they did whatever they wanted to against the government and screwed them over. So what i mean is that as long as both government and buisnessment check and balance each other, no one key buisness can screw over the nation as a whole. No one is holding a knife to the other's throat and willing to slash without taking harm to themselves in US, in which why its good.

Yes, if people are allowed to do what they want, they can overthrow a government. Any American would consider that a good thing. I fail to see any sort of point.

And a free market has its own system of checks and balances - the law of supply and demand. The businesses have to appease the people and the workers to some degree, or the people will boycott and the workers will strike. The problem is that people don't want the responsibility of independent convictions, so would rather the government make the decision for them. That type of philosophy is fascist, but when speaking in economic terms, the socialists jump on it. Again, a glaring contradiction.

A controlled economy or a "mixed economy" has NEVER worked and never will work without horrible consequences. The Great Depression was one of them - as is any sort of national recession. A free market not only wouldn't have nation-wide recessions, it would be statistically incapable of it(maybe something like "1 in a billion" odds).

EDIT:

They don't regulate business as well as they should.Read the constitution.The bill of rights apply to businesses and companies.WE treat them like artificial humans.Thus you have what we have today.Corporate society.

Have you completely ignored everything I said?

[Cloud No.9]

"they can't imagine a society where the government stays the hell out of the way of business is possible. "

you don't need to imagine. it is documented history. it is victorian britian. it is the height of cholera, typhoid, child labour in factories and coal mines, single room houses for 8 people, no sanitation or clean water, smog, dung heaps in cities.

been there, tried that, got the "i crapped myself to death with cholera t-shirt"

[lordblazer]

"they can't imagine a society where the government stays the hell out of the way of business is possible. "

you don't need to imagine. it is documented history. it is victorian britian. it is the height of cholera, typhoid, child labour in factories and coal mines, single room houses for 8 people, no sanitation or clean water, smog, dung heaps in cities.

been there, tried that, got the "i crapped myself to death with cholera t-shirt"

IT was worse in the states during that time period.lol.The restrictions now are good but they need to be better.I mean oyu see american corporations using mexico's free labor and being able to trade with mexico for free.

[Madame Adequate]

"they can't imagine a society where the government stays the hell out of the way of business is possible. "

you don't need to imagine. it is documented history. it is victorian britian. it is the height of cholera, typhoid, child labour in factories and coal mines, single room houses for 8 people, no sanitation or clean water, smog, dung heaps in cities.

been there, tried that, got the "i crapped myself to death with cholera t-shirt"

And made Britain an world hyperpower, ruling 1/4 of the planet, able despite being a small island nation to fight off any aggressors and lose hardly any wars, become one of the richest nations on the planet, invent the hundreds of inventions which we created in the 19th and 20th centuries, the scientific discoveries, yadda yadda yadda.

I'm sure someone else will be along shortly to point out the total flaws in your correllation = causation argument.

[lordblazer]

"they can't imagine a society where the government stays the hell out of the way of business is possible. "

you don't need to imagine. it is documented history. it is victorian britian. it is the height of cholera, typhoid, child labour in factories and coal mines, single room houses for 8 people, no sanitation or clean water, smog, dung heaps in cities.

been there, tried that, got the "i crapped myself to death with cholera t-shirt"

And made Britain an world hyperpower, ruling 1/4 of the planet, able despite being a small island nation to fight off any aggressors and lose hardly any wars, become one of the richest nations on the planet, invent the hundreds of inventions which we created in the 19th and 20th centuries, the scientific discoveries, yadda yadda yadda.

I'm sure someone else will be along shortly to point out the total flaws in your correllation = causation argument.

amen to that lol.

[Cloud No.9]

well the idea that laissez faire caused the appauling state of britian is backed up by the fact that when it was dropped and the liberals came to power then all that stuff went away.

and i personally would rather have the chance not to get cholera, work in coal mine 12 hours a day at 6 years old. than be part of a oppressive imperial nation.

[Teek]

well the idea that laissez faire caused the appauling state of britian is backed up by the fact that when it was dropped and the liberals came to power then all that stuff went away.

and i personally would rather have the chance not to get cholera, work in coal mine 12 hours a day at 6 years old. than be part of a oppressive imperial nation.

Cloud, that is not the product of capitalism. That is the product of the times. That was all that we could afford. It wouldn't have mattered what form of government; industries were at their birth, and working conditions were poor.

And, once again, victorian Britain might have been capitalistic, but it was not lassiez-faire.

[Cloud No.9]

god damn it it was laissez faire. do not make me dig out my higher history essays and work and post them all here and the supporting evidence. my extended essay and 33% of my grade was on the death of laissez-faire.

and these things were possible at the time. look at new lanark. the liberals managed to find it easy enough to budget it for as well.

[Teek]

Would you consider Hong Kong lassiez-faire? America?

Edit: Courtesy of Wikipedia.
"A capitalist system is an economic system - although often associated with democratic political systems, they are independent from each other. Capitalist systems have often functioned under unelected governments: the classic case is the United Kingdom, where less than 20% of adult males could vote prior to 1885, and women did not receive the vote until 1918. Some recent examples include Hong Kong, Singapore, and Chile under the rule of General Pinochet."