60th Anniversary of Hiroshima Bombing.

[Cuchulainn]

Let me emphasize on two things in that post.

Note it, because the same person who gave us this pearl of wisdom also said (oh the irony):...etc

Do you know the meaning of irony? There is a huge difference between sanctimonious and confidence in ones own knowledge of a chosen subject. If you are not sure about the difference let me explain. Sancimonious is the firm belief, no matter how absurd, that one or one's country is always in the right. It derives from the latin word for Saint. My standpoint was a flash of, at worst, arrogance, backed by my immense knowledge of World War Two. Ponder that, if you will while I move on to the next statement.

On to the main points. I'd like to see your evidence of the "civil government [...] coming into play". I mean seriously. Surely there are records or writings that defend your point of view and show that Japan would have surrendered peacefully before (let's be generous) September.

Certainly is, I could provide links but I'd prefer you dig for it yourself, it's more self satisfying. The fact that General Hideki Tojo's Military Government was ousted is absolutely no mistery at al. It was ousted in July 1944 and replaced by General Kuniaki Koiso, an office who openly wanted peace but was torn between satisfying the Japanese Military and the United States. Koiso was succeeded by the final wartime Prime Minister of Japab during the conflict, the moderate Kantaro Suzuki, who from as early as 1937 was opposed to any war with the United States and spent his term as Japanese PM Persuading his cabinet colleagues and the Emperor to sue for peace. It is also no secret he was making changes to the Cabinet, ousting Military Officials and bringing in Civil Servents (hence in the surrender footage you see Japanese Officials signing for Peace as opposed to Generals). Despite being an old ill man he refused to relinquish his Ministry to a General and held out for a Civil Servent. His wishes came in 17 August 1945 when Prince Higashikuni succeeded him. The last two PM's, despite being seasoned military commanders, spent their terms in office trying to find the best way for Japan to surrender. This too is absolutely no secret. So yes, there is writings & books on it, you just need to look further than National Review Dot Effing Com & read.

Second, because we think it was necessary or that it saved life on both side is a perfectly valid argument, akin to what happens oh so often in... medecine. You know that sometimes, to save a person, we have to remove something? Like a leg, or a kidney, or more simply, a tumor. It's painful, you lose sometimes a lot, but hey, what do you know? It saves your life.

Are you seriously trying to find an anology between organ removal and the death of hundreds of thousands of people in two nuclear attacks? How on earth you equate that?
'Dear Mrs Honda,
The United States Government deeply regret the death of your son, who was bearly in school, but think of his death like the removal of an organ. We had to kill non-combatants to save our combatants lives. We're sure you will understand, please find attached some chocolate and a picture of the GI who is now alive thanks to your son's death.
Yours
General Marshall

The Japanese determination to fight until the end (the "100 million deaths with honor" that the generals called for) was their way to self extermination. By breaking their will, we also saved them. They surrendered, and even better, received help to establish a government and organization that made it one of the most powerful (economically) country to this day. Ah yes, before you scream, I say it's a fact it saved Japanese lives, not the (main) reason why bombs were dropped.

Words are just words, you need to understand that. Do you remember Sadaam's men's words before both Gulf Wars? 'They will drown in their own blood' etc? What about the German Wehrwolves whom Goebbels said would fight in the Harz mountains forever? Public Statements never ever reveal the true sentiment, that is reveleaved in secret talks, and anyone who knows anything about wartime governments knows that.


EDIT: And Cloud is right. Japan went to the Stalin Government several times to sue for peace, it was rejected & never passed on. It was useful for Stalin to invade Manchuria (or Japanese Manchuko), more territory to own. Not to mention making sure China became Communist not Nationalist.