60th Anniversary of Hiroshima Bombing.

[Madame Adequate]

Are you seriously trying to find an anology between organ removal and the death of hundreds of thousands of people in two nuclear attacks? How on earth you equate that?
'Dear Mrs Honda,
The United States Government deeply regret the death of your son, who was bearly in school, but think of his death like the removal of an organ. We had to kill non-combatants to save our combatants lives. We're sure you will understand, please find attached some chocolate and a picture of the GI who is now alive thanks to your son's death.
Yours
General Marshall

Or, back in reality, it'd be more along the lines of

Dear Mrs. Honda,
The United States Government deeply regret the death of your son, who was barely in school, but think of his death as a sacrifice for millions of other Japanese lives. The destruction wrought by our weapons was terrible, but understand that by forcing the early surrender of your government, we have saved the lives not only of hundreds of thousands of our own soldiers, but of millions of Japanese as well. We tactfully remind you that warning was given to the Japanese people to evacuate the population and industrial centers of their nation, but appreciate your reluctance to believe these messages and difficulty in evacuating. We hope the millions of people alive today due to our actions is some small consolation to you.

Yours,
General Marshall.

[Endless]

Certainly is, I could provide links but I'd prefer you dig for it yourself, it's more self satisfying.

I insist, I'd like to see your citations. If you want to be taken seriously that is.

[Y]ou just need to look further than National Review Dot Effing Com & read.

Ah yes, the ad hominem attack. That clearly shows your superiority, right?

I'd also like to have your specialized input on the significance of the Battle of Okinawa (more than 110,000 Japanese and 12,000 American troops killed, 8 weeks before the two bombs), or of Operation August Storm (and the casualties that resulted).


Ah, yes, Saddam, and his minister of Information. The huge (huge!) difference between Saddam's men and Japanese soldiers was that the former had no will to fight, no desire to. They weren't treated good, and had very little reason to die knowing they'd lose. The Japanese on the other hand felt (and behaved) quite differently, as shown during the battle of Okinawa, for example.

On to the death toll. Using high estimates, 225,000 died because of the bombings (220,000 in the blast or withing four months), which, all in all, compares to Dresden and to Tokyo. In both cases, the city was pretty much leveled, and close to no military objectives were hit. Unlike the two bombs, who gave a way out of the war for Japan, these two didn't do anything to end the war. Even then, it's nothing compared to the causalities suffered from regular fights, like the estimated 15,000,000 civilian deaths in China (guess who caused them?). I don't see you screaming bloody murder about them though.

Oh yeah. I'd like your comments on this. And to close this post, I'll point to what I'm my own MILF proposed to correct your "letter" to Mrs Honda; and that, like it or not, the bombs happened and stopped the war 5 days after the second was dropped. I'm waiting for you to show evidence that any other method would have ended the war faster and/or with less casualties.

[lordblazer]

[QUOTE=I'm my own MILF]

Are you seriously trying to find an anology between organ removal and the death of hundreds of thousands of people in two nuclear attacks? How on earth you equate that?
'Dear Mrs Honda,
The United States Government deeply regret the death of your son, who was bearly in school, but think of his death like the removal of an organ. We had to kill non-combatants to save our combatants lives. We're sure you will understand, please find attached some chocolate and a picture of the GI who is now alive thanks to your son's death.
Yours
General Marshall

Or, back in reality, it'd be more along the lines of

Dear Mrs. Honda,
The United States Government deeply regret the death of your son, who was barely in school, but think of his death as a sacrifice for millions of other Japanese lives. The destruction wrought by our weapons was terrible, but understand that by forcing the early surrender of your government, we have saved the lives not only of hundreds of thousands of our own soldiers, but of millions of Japanese as well. We tactfully remind you that warning was given to the Japanese people to evacuate the population and industrial centers of their nation, but appreciate your reluctance to believe these messages and difficulty in evacuating. We hope the millions of people alive today due to our actions is some small consolation to you.

Yours,
General Marshall.

[/Thats everyone's problem on these debate threads.You guys are just tooo optimistic.Show some moderation for once in your lives and stop this USA bashing crap. Oh we were wrong for this that and this. Then some bastards talk about hwo the USA is wrong for taking japan and not allowing them to have a military to thi day. So what screw you. Becuase the simple point of the matter is Japan would've invaded the US oh wait hold they did invade parts of the USA and had it occupied also. So yeah just oh screw it all dammit think realistic this world isn't nice and the only thing in this worl dhtat matters is people who matter and people who don;'t matter. And if oyu don't matter then your a body shield for htose who matter.

[Cloud No.9]

actually the japanese saought control over asis and the pacifc. not the us.

[Cuchulainn]

I've made my point, everything else would be needless reitteration. Endless it is not my job to educate you. If you set up a Paypal account maybe I'll consider digging through my books and highlighting points in history for you, but not to prove a point on a FF site.

I've stated, previously, I was not against the bombs, militarily it was the right move, I just want realism & not sanctimony. I made a detailed post which may or may not have been ignored or scanned through quickly just so the counter can be made. The truth is, I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we will never truely know, we can just work on statistics given by historians and make an assessment. Histories 'What If's' occupy historians minds more than history itself. That's why I read on a subject over & over from every angle possible. Then I make an assessment.

Secondly, who's bashing the US? Some American's are so paranoid they view any semi-criticism as hate or bashing. Read my posts fully, you may just learn something, if you don't want to, READ. Pick up a book not written in the US, by a US Author with a US Patent. Experience every angle of a situation, including the angle demonised by your countrymen. You don't have to believe every word, God knows I don't, but it can help give a full picture instead of a half-truth.

I will never, have never, bashed America. If you believe I am an 'American Basher', you need to look at yourselves before judging me.

Footnote: Japan had absolutely no plans to invade mainland America. It's plans was to neutralise America in the Pacific enough to spread it's empire south & west without hindrance then hopefully sue for Peace, keeping East Asia. Japan had not the Military or economic power for such an invasion. It's Imperial aims were China & South East Asia. Then island hopping of the south Pacific was to take away the US Bases there. Pearl Harbour in a testament to Japan's whole aims actually, it was a neutrilisation mission. It could have invaded quite easily after completely destroying the ports & military instilations, but it believed it's job was done. It was wrong of course, and history is testament to that.

[lordblazer]

I've made my point, everything else would be needless reitteration. Endless it is not my job to educate you. If you set up a Paypal account maybe I'll consider digging through my books and highlighting points in history for you, but not to prove a point on a FF site.

I've stated, previously, I was not against the bombs, militarily it was the right move, I just want realism & not sanctimony. I made a detailed post which may or may not have been ignored or scanned through quickly just so the counter can be made. The truth is, I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we will never truely know, we can just work on statistics given by historians and make an assessment. Histories 'What If's' occupy historians minds more than history itself. That's why I read on a subject over & over from every angle possible. Then I make an assessment.

Secondly, who's bashing the US? Some American's are so paranoid they view any semi-criticism as hate or bashing. Read my posts fully, you may just learn something, if you don't want to, READ. Pick up a book not written in the US, by a US Author with a US Patent. Experience every angle of a situation, including the angle demonised by your countrymen. You don't have to believe every word, God knows I don't, but it can help give a full picture instead of a half-truth.

I will never, have never, bashed America. If you believe I am an 'American Basher', you need to look at yourselves before judging me.

Footnote: Japan had absolutely no plans to invade mainland America. It's plans was to neutralise America in the Pacific enough to spread it's empire south & west without hindrance then hopefully sue for Peace, keeping East Asia. Japan had not the Military or economic power for such an invasion. It's Imperial aims were China & South East Asia. Then island hopping of the south Pacific was to take away the US Bases there. Pearl Harbour in a testament to Japan's whole aims actually, it was a neutrilisation mission. It could have invaded quite easily after completely destroying the ports & military instilations, but it believed it's job was done. It was wrong of course, and history is testament to that.

but they did occupy a small portion of Alaska.

[Cuchulainn]

Again, that was to gain a defensive advantage, it went no further. The islands in the north Pacific were exposing Japan's north.

[lordblazer]

lol but ntohing is up there though >< lol I know there were a few POWs up ther ebut yeah lol.plus i have a paypal account so ar eoyu calling me stupid

[Skyblade]

I've made my point, everything else would be needless reitteration. Endless it is not my job to educate you. If you set up a Paypal account maybe I'll consider digging through my books and highlighting points in history for you, but not to prove a point on a FF site.

I've stated, previously, I was not against the bombs, militarily it was the right move, I just want realism & not sanctimony. I made a detailed post which may or may not have been ignored or scanned through quickly just so the counter can be made. The truth is, I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we will never truely know, we can just work on statistics given by historians and make an assessment. Histories 'What If's' occupy historians minds more than history itself. That's why I read on a subject over & over from every angle possible. Then I make an assessment.

Secondly, who's bashing the US? Some American's are so paranoid they view any semi-criticism as hate or bashing. Read my posts fully, you may just learn something, if you don't want to, READ. Pick up a book not written in the US, by a US Author with a US Patent. Experience every angle of a situation, including the angle demonised by your countrymen. You don't have to believe every word, God knows I don't, but it can help give a full picture instead of a half-truth.

I will never, have never, bashed America. If you believe I am an 'American Basher', you need to look at yourselves before judging me.

Footnote: Japan had absolutely no plans to invade mainland America. It's plans was to neutralise America in the Pacific enough to spread it's empire south & west without hindrance then hopefully sue for Peace, keeping East Asia. Japan had not the Military or economic power for such an invasion. It's Imperial aims were China & South East Asia. Then island hopping of the south Pacific was to take away the US Bases there. Pearl Harbour in a testament to Japan's whole aims actually, it was a neutrilisation mission. It could have invaded quite easily after completely destroying the ports & military instilations, but it believed it's job was done. It was wrong of course, and history is testament to that.

So, in other words, you're full of $#!+, and now that someone has called your bluff that you could produce documented evidence of your points, you're backing down. Why not just be honest about it?

Also, we're not being sancitmonius. We're pointing out that there was a hell of a lot more reasons for droppng the bombs than simply to save American lives: a point you have yet to even consider.

[Pant Leg Eater from the Bad World]

lol but ntohing is up there though >< lol I know there were a few POWs up ther ebut yeah lol.plus i have a paypal account so ar eoyu calling me stupid

I dont think he was calling you stupid. And please start correcting your grammar. In all the times Ive ever seen you post, your grammar is really annoying. You seem to usually forget periods. Sorry, off topic.

[Cuchulainn]

I've made my point, everything else would be needless reitteration. Endless it is not my job to educate you. If you set up a Paypal account maybe I'll consider digging through my books and highlighting points in history for you, but not to prove a point on a FF site.

I've stated, previously, I was not against the bombs, militarily it was the right move, I just want realism & not sanctimony. I made a detailed post which may or may not have been ignored or scanned through quickly just so the counter can be made. The truth is, I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we will never truely know, we can just work on statistics given by historians and make an assessment. Histories 'What If's' occupy historians minds more than history itself. That's why I read on a subject over & over from every angle possible. Then I make an assessment.

Secondly, who's bashing the US? Some American's are so paranoid they view any semi-criticism as hate or bashing. Read my posts fully, you may just learn something, if you don't want to, READ. Pick up a book not written in the US, by a US Author with a US Patent. Experience every angle of a situation, including the angle demonised by your countrymen. You don't have to believe every word, God knows I don't, but it can help give a full picture instead of a half-truth.

I will never, have never, bashed America. If you believe I am an 'American Basher', you need to look at yourselves before judging me.

Footnote: Japan had absolutely no plans to invade mainland America. It's plans was to neutralise America in the Pacific enough to spread it's empire south & west without hindrance then hopefully sue for Peace, keeping East Asia. Japan had not the Military or economic power for such an invasion. It's Imperial aims were China & South East Asia. Then island hopping of the south Pacific was to take away the US Bases there. Pearl Harbour in a testament to Japan's whole aims actually, it was a neutrilisation mission. It could have invaded quite easily after completely destroying the ports & military instilations, but it believed it's job was done. It was wrong of course, and history is testament to that.

So, in other words, you're full of $#!+, and now that someone has called your bluff that you could produce documented evidence of your points, you're backing down. Why not just be honest about it?

Also, we're not being sancitmonius. We're pointing out that there was a hell of a lot more reasons for droppng the bombs than simply to save American lives: a point you have yet to even consider.

Again, enough with the cussing. I can back up everything I've said you silly little kid. Quit the teen angst rants & attacks you're making yourself look ignorant. While I can back everything up, and while I am willing share my knowledge, I will not go out of my way in order to educate you. You are capable of doing that yourself. I have not backed down from anything either, I am standing by my points while remaining realistic. Something your pretentious little mind seems to lack. Your first little insult was ignored your second one lacked substance. Tell me, on your days off being a prentious little net soldier, what are your hobbies?

[Madame Adequate]

Again, enough with the cussing. I can back up everything I've said you silly little kid. Quit the teen angst rants & attacks you're making yourself look ignorant. While I can back everything up, and while I am willing share my knowledge, I will not go out of my way in order to educate you. You are capable of doing that yourself. I have not backed down from anything either, I am standing by my points while remaining realistic. Something your pretentious little mind seems to lack. Your first little insult was ignored your second one lacked substance. Tell me, on your days off being a prentious little net soldier, what are your hobbies?

Oooh, your attempt at character assassination reflects so well on you. Skyblade's not being the most felicitous in his arguments, but he's still making valid points and asking for some backup for your comments, which is A: not unreasonable and B: on your head to provide. If you can't, or won't, then we're through. I'm out of this topic until either you give something new and worthwhile to the topic, or someone else has soemthing worth talking about in it. As far as I'm concerned, you have nothing right here.

Endless it is not my job to educate you. If you set up a Paypal account maybe I'll consider digging through my books and highlighting points in history for you, but not to prove a point on a FF site.

So don't post in a debate thread then.

[Skyblade]

I've made my point, everything else would be needless reitteration. Endless it is not my job to educate you. If you set up a Paypal account maybe I'll consider digging through my books and highlighting points in history for you, but not to prove a point on a FF site.

I've stated, previously, I was not against the bombs, militarily it was the right move, I just want realism & not sanctimony. I made a detailed post which may or may not have been ignored or scanned through quickly just so the counter can be made. The truth is, I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we will never truely know, we can just work on statistics given by historians and make an assessment. Histories 'What If's' occupy historians minds more than history itself. That's why I read on a subject over & over from every angle possible. Then I make an assessment.

Secondly, who's bashing the US? Some American's are so paranoid they view any semi-criticism as hate or bashing. Read my posts fully, you may just learn something, if you don't want to, READ. Pick up a book not written in the US, by a US Author with a US Patent. Experience every angle of a situation, including the angle demonised by your countrymen. You don't have to believe every word, God knows I don't, but it can help give a full picture instead of a half-truth.

I will never, have never, bashed America. If you believe I am an 'American Basher', you need to look at yourselves before judging me.

Footnote: Japan had absolutely no plans to invade mainland America. It's plans was to neutralise America in the Pacific enough to spread it's empire south & west without hindrance then hopefully sue for Peace, keeping East Asia. Japan had not the Military or economic power for such an invasion. It's Imperial aims were China & South East Asia. Then island hopping of the south Pacific was to take away the US Bases there. Pearl Harbour in a testament to Japan's whole aims actually, it was a neutrilisation mission. It could have invaded quite easily after completely destroying the ports & military instilations, but it believed it's job was done. It was wrong of course, and history is testament to that.

So, in other words, you're full of $#!+, and now that someone has called your bluff that you could produce documented evidence of your points, you're backing down. Why not just be honest about it?

Also, we're not being sancitmonius. We're pointing out that there was a hell of a lot more reasons for droppng the bombs than simply to save American lives: a point you have yet to even consider.

Again, enough with the cussing. I can back up everything I've said you silly little kid. Quit the teen angst rants & attacks you're making yourself look ignorant. While I can back everything up, and while I am willing share my knowledge, I will not go out of my way in order to educate you. You are capable of doing that yourself. I have not backed down from anything either, I am standing by my points while remaining realistic. Something your pretentious little mind seems to lack. Your first little insult was ignored your second one lacked substance. Tell me, on your days off being a prentious little net soldier, what are your hobbies?

If you are not prepared to offer the information you claim to have, then you shouldn't volunteer it. You really have no one to blame but yourself.

Certainly is, I could provide links

Following up with a remark like "it is not my job to educate you" is one of the most pathetic attempts to save face I have ever seen. Your bluff was called: live with it. You still have offered no evidence supporting your claims, and you still have given no thought to my argument. So, yeah, you're full of $#!+. Why should I bother to sugar-coat it and be polite?

[Endless]

Again, enough with the cussing. I can back up everything I've said you silly little kid. Quit the teen angst rants & attacks you're making yourself look ignorant. While I can back everything up, and while I am willing share my knowledge, I will not go out of my way in order to educate you. You are capable of doing that yourself. I have not backed down from anything either, I am standing by my points while remaining realistic. Something your pretentious little mind seems to lack. Your first little insult was ignored your second one lacked substance. Tell me, on your days off being a prentious little net soldier, what are your hobbies?

Then, to be blunt, put up or shut up. If you are as "educated" as you claim to be, then you should know that in order to have any credibility (which, in my eyes, you still have yet to display), you should be backing up your claims and not merely saying "I can do it but I won't because <insert random reason here>". Is that how they taught you to debate in school, along with questioning (directly or using implicit insults) other people's intelligence and just plainly ignoring what others say with the excuse that "[You]'ve made [your] point, everything else would be needless reitteration."?

[Peegee]

Stopped reading at post #40

two questions

1) Does this mean you all support the Iraq war? Or what, they weren't hurting anybody?

2) Don't you realise that 'by stopping the war at any cost' there are thousands of Japanese children who are growing up with genetic disorders and other malladies caused by radiation? Or is that all utilitarian mumble jumble?

I can be called out of that last remark because of my thread on utilitarian human life worth but whatever. Two wrongs fallacy.