Convicted sex offender legally buys house next to daycare

[Shlup]

I'm not intending to insult anyone; I'm stating that their views are a refection of their ignorance to the topic, which I believe they are and they've given me no reason to believe they're not.

There are people in this thread giving justifications for child molestationin an effort to understand it. That's what we call an "excuse." If you don't believe me hit up dictionary.com; it's definition number three. That is, to an extent where we're trying to understand the crime, good, but making allowances for them because of these excuses/justifications/reason (whichever synonym you want to use is fine) is not okay, and that's what's being suggested here by saying things like they shouldn't be jailed or they should spend less time in jail as though they're somehow not responsible for their actions is not okay.

I'm sorry if I directly insulted anyone; I don't mean to say anyone here is an ignorant person, just that I strongly believe, based on what's been said, that you're opinion is based on ignorance to this topic.

[Optium]

So what are you saying, Optium? All I see is reasons why we should pity child molesters as victims of themselves, in spite of the fact that it takes a lot of thought and effort to get into a situation where you're sexually abusing someone;

Right, but a sexual urge can last a very long time, and without any
release it'll stay there. You guys keep saying that we're basically
babying child molesters and treating them like innocent people. That's
not the case, but it's understandable that it would seem that way. It's
sort of playing the devil's advocate because you are making them out
to be sub human and in fact sub organism, so the other extreme must
be taken by those debating the point or else there won't be much of a
debate.

that people who say sexual abuse is worse than death, including Ashley, are lying because otherwise they would've killed themselves;

Yes, that's what I'm saying. However I didn't say anything about
Ashley because I didn't want it to be personal. You're the one who
played that card. I was saying it on a broad and vague level because
each individual person is...their own individual person.

that, contrary to what probably anyone touched by this crime will tell you that stealing the innocence of a child is worse than killing someone.

I think you've worded it backwards...do you mean that I'm saying that
stealing the innocence of a child is not as bad as murder? If so, then
yes, that's what I'm saying.

The punishment isn't harsher because those who enforce the laws are like you.

It has nothing to do with those who enforce the laws, it has to do with
those who make the laws. Those who are representatives of the people.
Those who make the laws depending on what the majority of the people
want.

They don't understand. They have no comprehension of what it takes for someone to molest a child, and no comprehension of what damage it does. You're trusting some general notions and a societal ignorance rather than those who know what damage it does, knows the mind of a child molester, and even those who have experienced it.

Here we are back to the point of my first post in this thread. If society
is ignorant, do something about it. Debating on a forum is a good step,
but not nearly enough if it's as grave a problem as those who have
replied make it out to be.

You're pretty plainly saying "Those who are ignorant to this issue understand it better than those who are very aware of it and those who have been a victim of it."

When did I say this? No, what I'm saying is that those who have been
victimized by it are incredibly biased. Whereas those who haven't had
any personal experience with it are biased in the other direction. What
I'm trying to find is some sort of middle ground. Is letting a child
molester go free without anything to fix the problem a good thing? Of
course not. But is torturing and killing a child molester for a crime which
society has deemed far less heinous than murder the way to go
instead? Hell no.

.opt

[Excelsior]

What I dont get is why people are taking responsiblity for other peoples actions. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Sure, maybe these people do have a disease, and maybe this disease makes them want to have sex with children. Well, you know what, whenever I see a hot chick, I think to myself "oh man, I wish I could be getting in bed with her." but just because I want to do that, does that mean im going to use force and rape her to do it? Hell no. No matter how bad I want it, im not gonna do it. Because that aint right. (Im pretty sure udsuna said something very similar.) So, even if you ignore what udsuna and I are saying, does that mean a pedophile's sexual desires are stronger then my own desires? Or, anyones desires for that matter? No, just because there desires are different, that doesnt mean theres are stronger then anyone elses. Therefore, these people are acting on instinct and impulse. And if you act on instinct and impulse, that makes you an animal. Thus, not only child molestors, but rapists, murderes, whoever acts on there own animalistic urges and scars someone for life/kills them, should be delt as you would deal with any diseased animal.

Oh yeah, and again, PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. That sentence is key to life.

[Shlup]

To Optium: I still believe that you're basing your opinion on the ignorance of the many just because they are "society," when you should be basing it on those who know more about it. Not just those who have experienced it, but experts in the field also. Those are the people who are trying to reduce ignorance and get those laws changed. I hear you saying that we should do that, but at the same time saying you're not going to listen unless everyone else does first, because you're listening to the ignorant majority.

[eestlinc]

regardless of how you feel about child molesters, having a child molester live next to a school or daycare is like having a bullimic person live next to an all-you-can-eat buffet. Horrible idea and the situation is destined for failure. Of course, bullimics have every right to live next to a restaurant. It's kind of hard for a child molester to live anywhere in free society and not be near children, but we could at least make them live a certain distance from large congregations of children.

[udsuna]

That was the situation where you found that you could control your
sexual desires? Sorry man, but that's not much of an accomplishment,
I'm sure almost every guy here who's been to a party has been in that
situation and most have probably gotten over it. I've been in it numerous
times at a girl's house who I really had a thing for, but since I was more
sober than most of the other people there--only high, not drunk--it
turned out that I'd always end up looking out for her so that other guys
who couldn't control their urges (or worse, the ones who were at the
party for the sole purpose of finding a girl who was in that position)
wouldn't take advantage of her.

Congratulations though, you're mediocre.

I think you just made my point for me, thanks very much. Anyone "mediocre" is capable of resisting the urge to rape a helpless individual who cannot fight back, does not understand what's going on, even when guarenteed that they shall never be caught.

Therefor, those who go through with such depravety (every rapist and child molester) are far below "mediocre". There's your answer. Yes, pedophiles are sick, it's a disease that makes them *desire* children. But it's only desire, nothing more, nothing affects their brain and makes them less able to control themselves or resist compulsions. They are as capable of ignoring their desire as you or I (also just as capable of self-satisfaction with suitable imagination). And mediocre is all the control needed, so it's not like it should be difficult to do.

Conclusion? Obviously, while pedophiles can be good people with an illness that they control... child molesters are beyond the ken of human evil, deserving nothing, not even a quick death.

Oh, and as for "understanding"... no, I honestly don't understand what it means to be molested. Never happened to me, but it has happened to several people that I know and care about. I know that I can barely even grasp the basis of it, even intellectually... tip of the iceberg, as they say. But even that barest echo of the truth is more than enough reason to remove those who would inflict such harm from society, forever, in any way deemed convenient. Not humane, not just, simply convenient. I'll save humanity and justice for something human.

[Peegee]

I'm all dizzy reading this thread, but I did realise lately that fetishes don't go away. They can be suppressed, and I know from personal experience that it is a doable and practical solution to controlling a sexual fetish which is too deviant to practice (whatever it is).

So in theory Pedophiles CAN control themselves, but you can't 'cure' them of it. Or if you can I don't see how. Mine are deeply rooted in my subconscious, to the point where some of it scares me. If it can be torn out of my mind, I assure you I would do it.

And I'm not even a pedophile which apparently is the worst thing anybody can be.

But anyway, I'm sort of lost reading this. What I DO know is that we have laws stopping people from performing vigilante justice for the simple reason that nobody, no matter what they do, should be stripped of all rights of being human. That is barbaric and unfair, and basically states that you, being a human which is fallible, are completely certain that a person must be forced into a mentality, or that because of an act, a person is irredeemable.

I may not be well versed in psychology and I certainly no long remember sleeping at night dreading to go to school every day for three years with only the thirty or so hours of the weekend once a week to console me from relentless bullying during a period where I should've been developing my self esteem instead of having it stomped to the ground. My brother points out that "wah wah stop bitching" about my childhood, and the only reason I don't lash back is because I did get over it. What I do know is that branding a person irredeemable isn't going to help something that won't go away. Our sexual development seems to be more nurture dependent than anything else (Shlup might say otherwise?), at least to me, so to me this type of thinking will just pursist.

I've always used the following argument for people who are extremist and want to destroy something deviant -- the easiest way to silence a complaint is to kill the complainer. To me it's as sensible as banding together and slagging all the deviants.

[Optium]

I think you just made my point for me, thanks very much. Anyone "mediocre" is capable of resisting the urge to rape a helpless individual who cannot fight back, does not understand what's going on, even when guarenteed that they shall never be caught.

Therefor, those who go through with such depravety (every rapist and child molester) are far below "mediocre". There's your answer. Yes, pedophiles are sick, it's a disease that makes them *desire* children. But it's only desire, nothing more, nothing affects their brain and makes them less able to control themselves or resist compulsions. They are as capable of ignoring their desire as you or I (also just as capable of self-satisfaction with suitable imagination). And mediocre is all the control needed, so it's not like it should be difficult to do.

Conclusion? Obviously, while pedophiles can be good people with an illness that they control... child molesters are beyond the ken of human evil, deserving nothing, not even a quick death.

Oh, and as for "understanding"... no, I honestly don't understand what it means to be molested. Never happened to me, but it has happened to several people that I know and care about. I know that I can barely even grasp the basis of it, even intellectually... tip of the iceberg, as they say. But even that barest echo of the truth is more than enough reason to remove those who would inflict such harm from society, forever, in any way deemed convenient. Not humane, not just, simply convenient. I'll save humanity and justice for something human.

See this is the problem we had back in the day with alcoholism. It was
seen as a problem that if you were strong enough you could get over.
Someone who couldn't get over it was seen as weak and the people
around them would usually just say "just get over it." Now we understand
that it IS an illness which can't simply be "gotten over" and we have
organizations to help, and this has made the disease treatable so that
it is less of a problem. This is what I'm suggesting should happen with
sex offenders.

Now here's the thing about your situation with your female friend. You
got over that urge no problem. But what if it were to happen again, and
what if you hadn't had an orgasm in months, the sexual urge would be
far greater than it would be on a normal day. Then what if it happened
the next day too, and the next, yet you have still been unable to realease
your sex drive. Eventually it'd come out. In some cases the person might
be irritated and blow up on someone, in other cases the person might
become depressed, and in other cases the person might give into their
sexual urge. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it happens, and without
any way to treat it it'll keep happening. Now if your only method of
treatment is to kill that person, what you've done is far from treatment.

.opt

[udsuna]

Uh... didn't I mention something about them having their own fantasies? Dude, I swear, it's like you only skim my messages. You have no real understanding of the subject. You barely have the basic idea of the nature of things. I'd have hoped that, with some of the revelations made here, that maybe your eyes would be opened. Clearly, that has not happened. There is no cure, there is no treatment, there is no excuse, there is no reason, there is no alternative, and there should be no hesitation.

But, since you want to live in lala land. And no amount of truth is going to get through to you. Go do it. Abominatrix is absolutely right, this is the most disgusting thing that I've ever seen on this forum. You're barely any better than *they* are, don't ever speak with me again. I'm done with this thread. In fact, the entire thing should be removed from cyberspace.

[Optium]

Uh... didn't I mention something about them having their own fantasies? Dude, I swear, it's like you only skim my messages. You have no real understanding of the subject. You barely have the basic idea of the nature of things. I'd have hoped that, with some of the revelations made here, that maybe your eyes would be opened. Clearly, that has not happened. There is no cure, there is no treatment, there is no excuse, there is no reason, there is no alternative, and there should be no hesitation.

But, since you want to live in lala land. And no amount of truth is going to get through to you. Go do it. Abominatrix is absolutely right, this is the most disgusting thing that I've ever seen on this forum. You're barely any better than *they* are, don't ever speak with me again.

Actually I've been reading all your posts, I've read all the posts in this
thread. The thing about fantasies and self pleasure is that often times
pedophelia is a fetish. Therefore they can't get off without it, so in
some cases they might NEED to watch child porn. Granted this obviously
isn't the case for everyone, but it is a problem. I'm trying to point out
that it's not a fully conscious and controllable thing, which it seems like
some here won't accept. I understand that it is often very calculated
rather than a spur of the moment thing, but sexual urges can last
hours and without any release you can find yourself doing things which
you'd never imagine yourself to do.

When you say you think I'm skimming your posts are you referring to
the last time you got annoyed because I didn't reply to your point
about having had an experience where you had proven yourself?
Because to be honest the only thing I could have said to it would have
been "what was this experience?" and out of courtesy I didn't ask that
because I figured you didn't want to go into detail...I thought if you had
wanted to go into detail you would have in the first post.

Of what things do I not have any understanding of the nature? You're
making yourself out to be holier than thou once again but you're still
calling for torture and murder. Now you say that there's no treatment,
but you're basically a pot calling a kettle black since bipper already
posted a link (http://talkleft.com/new_archives/009787.html#009787)
which disproves that, yet bipper and I are the only 2 people in this
entire thread who have actually addressed the fact that this link
so much as exists.

Now the rest of the post is basically a personal attack so I'm not going
to bother replying to that.

.opt

[Cloud No.9]

"Are you saying you'd *RAPE* someone to satisfy your sexual needs? Either you are, and this argument is pointless because as far as I'm concerned, you no longer exist"

udsuna are you saying you would violently kill some for revenge? Either you are, and this argument is pointless because as far as I'm concerned, you no longer exist

if there is no excuse to rape and molest there is no excuse to kill. pick one. either there are exceptions or there aren't. either way you can zip it.

"deserving nothing, not even a quick death." stop with the ignorance of humanity. if you want to stand abve these people calling them evil do not call for their slow and torturous death. otherwise you are below even them.

[udsuna]

udsuna are you saying you would violently kill some for revenge? Either you are, and this argument is pointless because as far as I'm concerned, you no longer exist

Nope, I would never kill for revenge. Kill to protect innocents from being exploited by evil people, definately, but not for revenge. If there was a way to keep them alive, with a 100% guarentee that they could never possibly commit their crime again, I'd let them live. But you can't make that guarantee, and I won't take that chance.

And if you believe that violence in the name of defending the defenceless is wrong, congradulations. But I'm not that pathetically ignorant.

Oh, and I'm not being "ignorant" about humanity. Those things aren't human in any way but biology. Of course, I guess they could be used as medical test subjects for all kinds of experimental treatments. Like animal testing, only more accurate, and I wouldn't feel bad about the ones that die in the process.

[Tidus5]

Wow, Im going to stop following this thread now because it makes me sick. I feel ashamed to have contributed to it.

[Cloud No.9]

"I guess they could be used as medical test subjects for all kinds of experimental treatments." is that you jospeh? i thought you were dead mr mengel. but your great work lives on.

"If there was a way to keep them alive, with a 100% guarentee that they could never possibly commit their crime again, I'd let them live." i could say this for murderers, rapists, drug dealers, fraudsters.

what seperates these men from your child molester? the rapist commits the same crim but with someone older. the murderer ends the life, the drug dealers destroy lives, fraudsters steal and cripple people's livelihoods? should we kill these people to? submit them to mengel like experiments?

"Those things aren't human in any way but biology." that and that alone is all that counts.

[udsuna]

what seperates these men from your child molester? the rapist commits the same crim but with someone older. the murderer ends the life, the drug dealers destroy lives, fraudsters steal and cripple people's livelihoods? should we kill these people to? submit them to mengel like experiments?

Well, depends on the severity of crime, of course. But for rapists and a considerable chunk of murderers, sure, why not? If the fear of that kind of a fate gives pause to one of these monsters, makes them hesitate, saves *JUST ONE PERSON* from them- then it is all worth it.

Plus, the advantage to medical science is beyond obvious. It's not right to do something like that to decent human beings... but these parasites that wear the same flesh as us... they're fair game. Beyond fair, just.


Yeah, and I really should quit this, too... I know I'm not going to, but I should. Listening to these freaks defending even worse freaks... it's spiritually painful.