Greatest Civilisation ever?

[FluroChoco]

I just read this thread from the start...

I must say im shocked...

Hachifusa...

You condem the public health system as taking money out of the pockets of the hard working. Exactly how rich are your parents? Consider what if you had a family, worked 50 hour weeks in an unskilled job because you were poor at school and your parents were too poor to afford tight ass education. You spend every cent feeding and clothing your children. then one of your kids gets pneumonia. You have the rent to pay or you'll all be on the street. Antibiotics that could help your child survive the possibly fatal and certainly common diagnosis are expensive.. What do you do without a public health system. Does the child have no right to these possibly lifesaving antibiotics so that Hachifusa's father can spend an extra $5000 a year on golf clubs???

I live in Australia and we have this wonderful concept called Medicare and bulk billing. If i get sick it costs me $2 to go see the doctor and possibly another $2 for some medicine. But do i see it as a barbaric system restricting the rights of individuals by ripping money from their pockets??? I think its more barbaric to cast the not so fortunate members of society such as yourself into the cold because of no fault of their own.

Did you know that America spends $399 Billion annualy on the miltary? I wonder how much that costs your dad? This is more than spent on Justice, Health, Education, Jobs and employment, housing assistance, international affairs, natural resources and the environment, science and space and economic development COMBINED

Australia and Canada may have higher taxes than America, but at least I can sleep at night.

[Teek]

FluroChoco, welcome. I'm afraid you're joining too late, and we've already had massive debates about capitalism v. communism/socialism, about the futility of a National Health System, and whatnot. To be honest, I've already answered these concerns all over the forums - please use the search function. It just gets really old saying it over and over again.

However, I will say two things:

One, my parents are hardly rich, I'm afraid. In fact, we're closer to poor than rich.

Second, just to sum up the argument, I am against socialized health care (indeed, all forms of socialism) due to both moral and practical reasons. For any specific concerns, you can find them over the board.

[Cloud No.9]

the nhs saved my life. nuff said.

communism can work if it is on a global scale otherwise it is prone to being isolated.

[jrgen]

Communism could never work on a global scale. The smaller the group of people is, the bigger would the chance it would work be.

[Teek]

Yeah, I agree. The smaller the scale, the more likely it'd succeed (and the less dissention there would be).

[Cloud No.9]

communism on a small scale would work if the people were self dependant. if not they have tp trade out with their communist state and so need profit.

[tomamar04]

Communism is the most common from of friendship.

If my friends and I bought a bargain bucket from KFC for £9.99, and I pay £5 of it, I still wouldn't mind if I shared it between others, as long as I could tell them what to do with it

[Madame Adequate]

See, that's the thing. Communism can work exceptionally well in a commone. A few dozen people, maybe even a couple of hundred. I know I have a basically communist view of myself and my closest friends - what's mine is theirs. I love and trust them enough to be of the opinion they will make good use of it and will appreciate my effort.

As soon as the group becomes too large for there to be a realistic chance for you to know everyone, it falls to pieces. People will donate £10 to charity, they might help someone in the street who's been injured, but they're not going to devote a lifetime of work to people they don't even know and will never meet.

[Cloud No.9]

they aren't. but why shouldn't they?

[Teek]

I could answer that it's because it's immoral to force others to do it, but instead I'm going to say that that is a really weak argument, Cloud. Why shouldn't people do a lot of things - the question is properly, "Why should I?" rather than, "Why shouldn't I?"

Especially in politics.

[Cloud No.9]

because all men were created equal in the eyes of god and must be kept that way on his earth.

[Teek]

Do you think that people remain fundamentally equal? I mean, is the great Karl Marx on the same level as the evil George Washington? Is a hero the same as a drug dealer?

[Cloud No.9]

basicly yes. they are human after all.

[Teek]

That's true, but I meant in spirit. If that's the case, how can you hate someone or love somoene? You'd have to feel the same for everyone.

Don't you think your ideal is slightly conformist in nature?

[Cloud No.9]

there are degrees of equality. ou can be equal yet individual. we are all individual in spirit. all unique. with different talents and traits. some people are good and some are evil. but all are still human at the end of the day. and given that fact that should have absolute equal rights. rights that should not hinder another's.

and that is the problem with capitalism. you are allowed to hinder and exploit if you are big enough or powerful enough.