Quote Originally Posted by Erased
So you'd rule out Greece, with their mythology? The amazing Roman Empire - home to Roman Catholicism? You'd rule out Asia (Ancient China had an incredible strategist named Genhis Khan.) Ancient Japan, built upon Honor?
Yes, I'll rule out ancient Greece. Any society that executes some of it's greatest visionaries is a little lacking in cultural advancement. For that matter, when execution is considered public spectacle, then you can't exactly slice that up as "advanced".

As for the "Amazing Roman Empire".... don't get me started. They became an empire through the rape and destruction of hundreds of lesser cultures. There are languages that don't exist because the Romans actively destroyed them. Burned every text, killed everyone who could speak them. Rome is the shining paragon of all things to do with the abuse of power. They only built roads in order to keep the soldiers in line. Smart, yes... altruistic, no way in hell. And who are you to say Roman Catholicism is greater than any one of the dozens of religions that they helped to destroy.

Uh... Ghenghis Khan... brilliant strategist, that much is true. Then again, so was Hitler. And the "Honor" codes of China and Japan were wonderful in and of themselves. Too bad that they were almost never practiced. Some followed them, no doubt, but the society as a whole barely paid lip service. And Japan's "Honor" isn't so ancient. They were following that very same "Honor" right into World War 2... Pearl Harbor was about as honorable as a dagger in the back.

Check out a conspiracy website sometime. Sure, it's all nuts, but really - If you don't know what others think is going on, how could you possibly condemn an ancient civilization?
Take India for example. People don't exactly value life there. True story - my father's there on a business trip. He's stop at a sign or light or something - this guy gets out of his car, goes and beats on a guy in another car, gets back in and drives away. 'miserable, bleak'? Or do you consider that a happy fairy tale?
Corruption... well, how about "this girl turned down my advances... therefor, I'm going to rape her in the street and order my men to kill her every living relative in front of her. They'll obey the order, and no one will ever do anything about it. They won't even argue. Conspiracy theories aside, even if they're all true, that stuff happens hidden in the shadows. The old school brand was done in plain sight without fear. No competition.

Starvation and violence? It seems there's people in poverty in the USA, are you saying they don't starve? Even to death? And that's just in the USA. I won't talk about any 'third-world' countries. As for violence, there have been shootings. In schools. In the USA! Ah yes, shrugging off technologies. I mean, pfft - no one needs the wheel. No one needs clothing. (That wasn't sarcastic, it's true - we don't actually need those things.)
Oh, and I'm full aware that there are still spots in the world that don't place much value on human life. It's a disgrace and degeneration that still exists today, but we shouldn't excuse the past for it any more than the present. That's like saying "well, there are still serial killers, so Jack the Ripper isn't all that bad". I'm kinda disappointed that you brought up India, not Africa.

As for the technology, I was saying that no single culture in the past contributed much ALONE to the advancement. Brilliant developements occured every so often across the globe almost at random. The creators of those advancements deserve credit, but it's like they just appeared out of nowhere. Spontaneously, nothing but a particular area's luck that *this* person would be a revolutionary genius.

And for some reason, the way you stated that life and death are cheap I take it you've seen Full Metal Alchemist. If you haven't, it states that the adult human being can be built on the cheap. But science is missing something. Science only outlawed human alchemy because it wasn't able to do it. That's like.... quitting with technology. Saying ancient technologies are irrelevent. Etc.
I didn't say life and death are cheap. I said that ancient cultures treated life cheaply. Individuals treated as if they don't exist, save for what they can do to serve the desires of those who have power. And that much, as far as a historical perspective, is certainly true.

And I've seen the show. Pretty good, I think, but it had no influence on my statement. Almost everything I've said here, I've said before ever seeing the show, in debates going back years.

I'd say past civilizations have given modern civs. a run for our money.

My appoligies if this is harsh.
Oh, don't apologize, I like harsh. As long as you discuss intelligently, and you have thus far.