Greatest Civilisation ever?

[FluroChoco]

How can you "laugh out loud" at a race/civilisation dying from malaria? I don't think its very funny...

China under chairman Mao was pretty 'Great'. He pulled China from a primarily feudal system with the equivalent of medieval serfs and barons to a healthy communist society. He gave rights to women. Before Mao they simply existed as vassals of their fathers or husbands'. He intorduced laws against rape, the right for women to own property and business and the right for women to divorce amongst other things. Before this the barbaric practice of binding Women's feet was widely practised in China. Mao should not be associated with the China of today, nor the China that oppressed freedom of speech, that commited the atrocities tenesse square (is that right?). Mao died before these things occurred. The Chinese communist party of today follows drastically different policies to the party of the 60's.

Also, can America call Vietnam or the Gulf wars acts of charity? I admit America does have a welfare system and gives large amounts in international aid, but would this aid be needed if America did not abuse the economies of these countries in the first place.

I'm not amreican so i don't know, Does american welfare include:

A single parent pension that provides above the poverty line?
A dole for the liegitimately unemployed '' '' '' '' ?
An old age pension?
Disability pensions for the mentally ill/physically disabled that provides above the poverty line?

this is not an attack, I am not informed of the intircacies of America's welfare system.

[Madame Adequate]

China under chairman Mao was pretty 'Great'. He pulled China from a primarily feudal system with the equivalent of medieval serfs and barons to a healthy communist society. He gave rights to women. Before Mao they simply existed as vassals of their fathers or husbands'. He intorduced laws against rape, the right for women to own property and business and the right for women to divorce amongst other things. Before this the barbaric practice of binding Women's feet was widely practised in China. Mao should not be associated with the China of today, nor the China that oppressed freedom of speech, that commited the atrocities tenesse square (is that right?). Mao died before these things occurred. The Chinese communist party of today follows drastically different policies to the party of the 60's.

Hah! Mao's policies also killed over 50,000,000 people. That number is so large as to be near-futile, because nobody can really understand the magnitude of death which that entails.

Also, can America call Vietnam or the Gulf wars acts of charity? I admit America does have a welfare system and gives large amounts in international aid, but would this aid be needed if America did not abuse the economies of these countries in the first place.

Only certain parts of Latin America can blame only the US for their economic situations (And those which do so, but get on with it and fix the mess are often improving daily.); Africa, Asia, and the Middle East ought to place most of the blame at Europe's feet. If everyone had free trade, and similar business laws to America or hell, even Western Europe, then they'd pull themselves up within a remarkably short amount of time.

As to the wars: No. Certainly for me part of the Iraq War is the fact that Iraqis are free from Saddam, but the Gulf War was defending Kuwait, and Nam was about beating Communism. Which really should be interpreted as a service to the entire planet, in my eyes, regardless of the nation's movites in doing so.

[Kirobaito]

How can you "laugh out loud" at a race/civilisation dying from malaria? I don't think its very funny...

China under chairman Mao was pretty 'Great'. He pulled China from a primarily feudal system with the equivalent of medieval serfs and barons to a healthy communist society. He gave rights to women. Before Mao they simply existed as vassals of their fathers or husbands'. He intorduced laws against rape, the right for women to own property and business and the right for women to divorce amongst other things. Before this the barbaric practice of binding Women's feet was widely practised in China. Mao should not be associated with the China of today, nor the China that oppressed freedom of speech, that commited the atrocities tenesse square (is that right?). Mao died before these things occurred. The Chinese communist party of today follows drastically different policies to the party of the 60's.

Is that a joke? Mao led China through the Cultural Revolution, which was one of the most destructive and morally disgusting periods in history. You are right, though - he did give women the same rights as men. But in Maoism, those rights mean next to nothing.

[udsuna]

Well, that definately rules out that era for the Chinese claim to greatness. They did develop agriculture to the point where it would actually make a difference. They weren't the only ones to invent that idea, completely independent of any of the others, but they did invent agriculture.

[Channing]

Hmm, I'd have to say Prussia. The Prussian lifestyle was ruled by the military. They jumped 30,000+ troops in 20 years incriments and created the largest standing professional army in the world. If not for the princes decision Prussia would have remained a world power past the pentarchy.

Prussian Standing Professional Army.

[nik0tine]

As to the wars: No. Certainly for me part of the Iraq War is the fact that Iraqis are free from Saddam, but the Gulf War was defending Kuwait, and Nam was about beating Communism. Which really should be interpreted as a service to the entire planet, in my eyes, regardless of the nation's movites in doing so.

I can't say much about gulf war one, but the current Iraq war is not about liberating anybody. Anyone who takes that stance knows nothing about the war.

And nam was about beating communism not as a service to the world, but simply so that America could dominate the world.

[Madame Adequate]

As to the wars: No. Certainly for me part of the Iraq War is the fact that Iraqis are free from Saddam, but the Gulf War was defending Kuwait, and Nam was about beating Communism. Which really should be interpreted as a service to the entire planet, in my eyes, regardless of the nation's movites in doing so.

I can't say much about gulf war one, but the current Iraq war is not about liberating anybody. Anyone who takes that stance knows nothing about the war.

And nam was about beating communism not as a service to the world, but simply so that America could dominate the world.

I didn't say it was, I said that part of the reason I support it is because that has come about.

You mistake intentions for outcomes. I'd far sooner have America in charge than Communism, but either way, I detest Communism and thus even if I didn't like America I would applaud what they did - for whatever reasons - against it.

[udsuna]

Sadly, the viatnamese actually ASKED for our assistance. They made the request, because the Russians were supporting an insurgency that wanted to overthrow the standing government. Just like how Castro did with the old Cuban government. Admittedly, in both cases, the standing government was incompetent beyond belief.... but we had to get involved because it was either the USA or the USSR in charge when it was all over.

As for Iraq... you can't blame that one on the general American public. I still think Bush needs to be drawn and quartered.

[FluroChoco]

How can america all itself a free country, a democracy, if the general public has no control over who its nation goes to war with?

[FluroChoco]

What about Denmark? They have been pretty solid throughout history, never a key player in a war (to my knowledge, i may be wrong). No recent human rights atrocities. I kinda like denmark. Never tried to build an empire, never tried to hurt nobody. Perhaps an international 'snag'. I think denmark is the greatest nation at modesty. Im sure there are some pretty wrong things in Denmark's history that people are about to remind me of but i think recently, ikn comparison to the world players of today, Denmark is a pretty 'great' place to live

[Madame Adequate]

How can america all itself a free country, a democracy, if the general public has no control over who its nation goes to war with?

Because the general public also doesn't have to be in the army.
And the general public can do what Cindy Sheehan is doing.
And say what so many people online say.
Any nation which allows it's people to decry and dissent during a war about that same war is doing damned well, and could with very little justification remove most of those things.
And no nation's people have such control. The politicians make those decisions. I mean, a referendum on going to war? I think not.

Edit: From what I know of Denmark, they can only be classed as 'great' if 'great' now means 'inoffensive and unremarkable'. I'm sure it's far from a terrible place to be, but it hardly fits the description of great in my eyes.

[Teek]

How can america all itself a free country, a democracy, if the general public has no control over who its nation goes to war with?

I don't really see how you intend for any nation to ever really decide that. I wonder how many people would opt out of a war if we were attacked.

I agree with Aristotle when he said that pure democracy is nothing more than mob rule. That's why I am a fan of the constitutional republic we have in place.