I don't understand what you're referencing here.Originally Posted by lionx
I don't understand what you're referencing here.
Lets just say that you only get one side of the story, the story America wants you to see really. When you read newspapers and news elsewhere it varies greatly. Its best to read many sources and not just those in america or english to know whats up and form a better opinion.
That and i am pretty sure Japan, Taiwan, and US wants to see China dead despite the facades they put up.
Were you talking directly to me? I feel that you could claim the same thing about any other user. We won't mention names, will we, Cloud? And about the "dead China" thing: I think that you're being real paranoid. America clearly doesn't like China (neither do I, and I don't agree that people can be only half-free in the meantime to make China stronger or whatever your argument is) but we're not secretly hoping they'll blow off the planet, or something.
In fact, I don't think that the sensible world is even trying to put up a facade. All of the countries denounce China's communism.
There IS NO Communism in China really, besides in-name. It will be true stupidity when you let people have freedom in their situation. It will be the same as Russia and the downfall of the Soviet. Right now the country needs to be strong, try doing that if America is hated by a country stronger than them and Hawaii doesnt want to be part of the US anymore and if you dare want to reclaim it back you will be nuked. I am sure people will be great if they dont agree and show weakness. In fact thats what the US wants, and use that as an excuse to break up countries like Korea for example and the Korean War. It says differently in American textbooks of course. But i am sure many people might think differently, feel free to disagree.
What US wants is not to blow them up, but to seperate a country into weaker parts starting with Taiwan, and then they will be uncontested, while keeping up the mask of liberty and whatever else they say. It might seem very extremist to you and i expect lots of disagreement, but i stand firm and will disagree with many conservatives and the American government.
EDIT: please dont think that means i hate americans, because thats ridiculous.
But in the same way i denounce America's government. Give China 15-ish years and they can make an incredible comeback i am pretty sure.
First off, don't call me one of those theocratic conservatives. I take great offense. The only thing worse than a conservative is a liberal.
I also think that America doesn't have a mask of liberty. There is corruption, but we're prety damn liberated as a general rule. I think it's foolish to proclaim that America does things anti-American. Then again, we almost had socialized health care, so what am I talking about. I don't know what the hell some American officials plans are for China, but I tend to be against slave pens like China has been (and is just now beginning to loosen), so I have to say that I am not fighting for China to be a strong nation. At least, not militarily.
I know that China's communism is beginning to slide, and perhaps in a few decades China will be a good place to live. However, it is ridiculous to proclaim that the way to score more freedom for the Chinese people is by denying them freedom in the meantime. No one is thinking China will always be a bad place, but it certainly isn't paradise now, and denying them freedom is pretty contradictory.
Yes and all Liberals are bad :rolleyes2 That and i dont really think i said you were O_o I said thats why i disagree with them.
I actually DO think American government does things that are completely opposite to what some people(and sometimes you) think. I do think theres a facade and i do see that they are trying to do those things. Those are not slave pens anyway, thats a wrong way to say it, its a way to gain money for a long time, and they are in a MUCH worst situation than America. You guys arent in a bad situation, the top of the bunch, able to say anything and everything and no one gives because theres 26,000 nukes with you guys and you dont allow anyone else to have em(bs). Hell you completely ignored the UN you guys tried to create.
Denying them freedom with the racism and hate stemming from US and Japan and Taiwan is something you seemed to be confused with. Would you want disagreement and people protesting in your country when you are weak? Hell no, the country will die like the Soviets. When you are strong you can have as much negoiation and freedom as you like. That and china doesnt have to follow the American way, the Western way is not the best and there is by no means do we have to follow anything to fit anyone's ideals to strengthen a country that has been in some trouble because of the mistake of following communism. Theres enough trouble elsewhere, and China has been pretty polite to everyone outside of China, they dont need anything internally for people to slash at more. Its a different mindset.
EDIT: If i seemed rude i apologize, i am going through alot right now and the frustrations and the current events surronding these things dont really help. So i apologize in advance if i seemed rude.
Last edited by Lionx; 08-19-2005 at 12:19 AM.
It is that very freedom which leads to strength. It is the massive range of different views in the US, and the freedom to try and put those views forth and make changes, which engenders the very entreprenuership and motivation which builds a strong economy and a strong society. It's the freedom to know that when you work hard, and play smart, you'll almost certainly come out on top that makes people work hard and play smart.
Nope, America is the top boss, they also have a huge saying in many things. With Iraq they invaded and set up a government to their own liking. If there should be something like that there, in China, it will most definetly fall. Not everyone wants to be ran by the US.
There is a strong society, Chinese people in general do work very hard and have the look of tough love on many of them. That and its not China limiting the trade that America said they were promoting, it is America themselves. They sold a Gasoline company for 170million(or billion forget) to Chevron rather than to China for 200million because they deemed them as at threat.
Its still there, the school system shows.It's the freedom to know that when you work hard, and play smart, you'll almost certainly come out on top that makes people work hard and play smart.
Again its a totally different mindset, and that when things are in ruin, you dont want people showing they are weak, they need to get their gear in line, and fast. The economy there is rapidly improving with their own way of doing things, and i am sure will near equal or surpass the US within time and hardship. Why else would US deem them a threat..?
EDIT: I still think theres alot of freedom for people there despite what people think. I feel what they are doing are fine for their current situation with the current oppositions. If China were in the same league as America(which they arent at the moment) then i might think differently. But i support them so far and thats where i stand.
Last edited by Lionx; 08-19-2005 at 01:00 AM.
Alright, here we go...The Palestinian extremists have been doing that, most definitely NOT the government, Yasser Arafat pretty much gave in to every demand there was in order to try and protect his people.
Arafat tried his best to form a deal and prevent problems, but the Israeli government were the ones who refused to work towards any solution.
The Israelis just stole a large portion of Palestine and claimed it as their own, with the help of the UN (I think it was the UN), I'm sure if a religion claiming to be a race of people came along and just stole a portion of the town where you live, you'd be just deliriously happy, wouldn't you?
Also, there's the fact that the Palestinians are denied an army, when the Israelis have tanks, large quantities of troops, helicopters and fighter planes, and all the Palestinians have are sticks and rocks, and the ever depressing suicide bomber.
Few suicide bombers actually ARE children, but the entire intent of the bombers was to force Israelis out of what wasn't their country, and FINALLY at last the Israelis have given in and are moving out of the Gaza strip, which should see an end to most, if not all hostility.
I'm not saying suicide bombing is correct, but to an extremist in a relatively impotent country, it's all they have left in order to try and make a point.
First - Yasser Arafat gave in to no pressure, from any side. Had he consented to even the most generous of Israeli offers (i.e, the one made in 1999, giving the Palestinians a nation comprised of 98% of all their land), he would've died by the hands of his people long before his actual natural death. The word 'compromise' has little place in Arab mentallity... they are only willing to negotiate, if they feel they have something to gain, or something to lose. Egypt had a lot to gain and much to lose, and so did Jordan. Syria is courting after Israeli for a good deal of time now. However, the Palestinians have no-where to go. The Jordanians kicked them out a good deal of time ago to fight off the early Jewish settlements in the late 1800s, and now they are stuck in a place they don't want to be in, under the rule of some pansy Jewish democracy that doesn't let them go anywhere but also prevents any real combat, and without any means of winning the fight.
So, in their desperation (which could easily be turned aside if they only accepted peace), they fight a useless war against one of the strongest and most trained armies in the world, led by one of the most war-weary (and weary in general) people there are, and nothing seems to be moving.
Now, as of late, after over 5 years of small-time war, Israel begins to endorse the 'screw them, we're getting out of here' approach. Unless Israel accepts the Palestinians into their own country (which would lead to an Arab majority, which would then in turn abolish democracy and the Jewish state, and leading to a second Holocaust), or they could drive them all out (an impractical move, since there are millions of Arabs, and not to mention it is an immoral act), the Israelis are left with little choice. Seeing as the other side isn't keen on giving up, nor is it keen on making compromises and reaching peace, Israel takes matters into its own hands, and begins to leave the Palestinian-occupied territories, places which are lawfully Israeli, but have been infested with Arabs, and are no longer worthy of Jewish settlement.
In other words - Israel is giving up, for the time being. Trusting in its long-lastingness (after all, it HAS been in the area for a good few thousands of years) and in its general sturdiness, Israel sees the Palestinian occupation of its lands as something that wouldn't last very long. Since Israel supports the Palestinians a 100 percent, by supplying them with electricity, water, food, medicine and various other aid (only it isn't aid, it's full support), the Palestinians wouldn't last very long without the 'horrible Israeli occupation', that is like oxygen for them. Israel will leave, and the Palestinians will suffocate. Who's fault is it now?
They don't want a state of their own, for that reason only. They are mostly comfortable fighting, since they have little to lose, in their eyes. Settling and reaching agreements with the humanist, Zionist scum is un-acceptable to them. They'd rather win the war... only, they cannot.
Also, I don't know what your moral values are, but in my eyes, there is no excuse for setting up children with explosives and sending them to die. Just a small anacdote, you know...
When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one yourself... when gazing into the abyss, bear in mind that the abyss also gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The rightful owner of this Ciddie can kiss my arse! :P
The problem with China is that. They are communist. They have little to no industrialization regulartions on pollution and such. I mean have oyu seen teh Yellow river? IT ain't even yellow its murky and black and nasty and icky...Also the vast gap between rich and poor.
What made USA a economic Super Power and ensured it was. The GI bill. Which generated a middle class. That is still growing.
[/QUOTE]Hrm. Bad working conditions, I agree. But we're not holding the Chinese people who want to work for themselves (again, their selves) for a change at gunpoint. Kick them out. It's sad that China is in that low of a state that they are willing to work for so little, but how is that America's fault?[/QUOTE]
BAh lol you should see what they do to illegal immigrants from mexico..
15 bucks a day for 20 hour shifts. They work over 140 hours a week and get paid next to nothing.
Taiwan shouldn't stay with China. Look lionx whya re oyu emphasizing china a lot I mean it makes you seem like one of those anime fans who thinks people in Japan live and breathes anime.China is in a low state comming out of the WWII and facing pressure from Japan, Taiwan(which i believe should stay with China), and the US, they need to do these things. When you are down in the rut, people working in US wasnt anything that different during those times either.
Last edited by lordblazer; 08-19-2005 at 09:55 PM.
well it ain't as bas as the average african wage of a dollar a day. and that is due to subsidies and trade tarriffs.
Ok i know america treat poeple like crap. yeah if your a minority you get paid less than a white female. IF your a white female you get paid less than a white male. (this is when it comes to doing the exact same job for the exact same company.)
Bah america this and america that and americans are dumb. whatever.I'm done here .
BTW lionx Mcdonalds is jsut the world's biggest fastfood chain. They aren't a horrible company. WalMart is the worse one out their and you name one that is jsut has nothing to do with this.
The only thing Mcdonald's did was introduce a completely new diet to the chineese and other eastern countries. (Which yes if they ate it everyday they would die.)..I mean yeah its like with the Kiowa's. The Kiowa's are one of the few humans who can eat raw meat and not get sick. If I was on a Kiowa diet I would get sick and most likely die. I'm seminole lol we cook our food.
Get it through your skulls, its only communist by name, i am going to ignore anything further from that. Their buisness practices are pretty capitalistic. The Yellow River is like that for a reason, theres a reason its Yellow and using that to say its polluted is the worst example ever. Theres a reason for the sediments in the river, have you seen any other river? There are regulations for that, however they are still having trouble trying to get rid of the sediments. You know nothing about that.The problem with China is that. They are communist. They have little to no industrialization regulartions on pollution and such. I mean have oyu seen teh Yellow river? IT ain't even yellow its murky and black and nasty and icky...Also the vast gap between rich and poor.
Wrong, they can work that much but 15 bucks over there can afford many more things than what 15 bucks can over here.15 bucks a day for 20 hour shifts. They work over 140 hours a week and get paid next to nothing.
And its different for all those people thinking America is for the win? Taiwan should stay with China, they look down upon their own countrymen and with guaranteed protection from the US they could leave whenever they want. Sorry they belong back in China where they should, US shouldnt dictate that at all, nosey people..Taiwan shouldn't stay with China. Look lionx whya re oyu emphasizing china a lot I mean it makes you seem like one of those anime fans who thinks people in Japan live and breathes anime.
and i know a few Japanese people that dont like anime, that comment made no sense whatsoever.
No they arent a horrible company, however they arent the best either, and like every other western chain they are all about profit profit profit(with the exception of In & Out because they arent huge on franchises and prefer to still uphold their quality in food). They ARE the most Anti-Union thing out there, and they have statistically the worst food quality of every fast food joint.BTW lionx Mcdonalds is jsut the world's biggest fastfood chain. They aren't a horrible company. WalMart is the worse one out their and you name one that is jsut has nothing to do with this.
They also push their fast food into other countries, some whether they like it or not with protest for this american garbage. Again read the book i recommended up there. They do this in Athens even, and from the discussions i had of people going elsewhere in college, alot of places feel like America(even China at parts) with their fast food and unification of tastes made from factories that produce chemicals to unify the taste of food.
McDonalds also would push their food into schools and to do that push their food into the diet of kids which are defined early on. To remedy the potential uproar they provide the school with funds and the like, and soon everyone will be accustomed and liking the taste of McDonalds, and not only is it introducing new food, it is introducing new lifestyle as well as people (at least this person who went to India anyway) would try to be more American-ish because its the hipper thing to do. Which in a way i feel hurts culture in the country when i tis pushed into something that they do not want. Sorta like Frito Lays.
aside from destroying the rain forest, killing of species of animal, filling up landfill sites, selling high fat high calorie food to kids, working against african farmers. yeah mc donalds are an okay company i guess. like hitler wasn't a bad guy.
I was going to comment in this thread, but then I made the mistake of actually reading the replies and was almost violently sick.
"When you're strong, you can have all the freedom you want." How did the US become strong, exactly? By being the most free nation. Throughout the 19th century, the degree of a country's freedom was directly proportional to its degree of economic growth. Do you people simply ignore this?
First off, it's not as if America is the only country cutting down trees. Secondly, why should I care about trees?aside from destroying the rain forest,
See my last answer.killing of species of animal,
See my first answer.filling up landfill sites,
Ohelling high fat high calorie food to kids,! I sold something to someone who was willing to buy it! I'm an evil evil evil person because the product may end up being physically harmful to him if he consumes it(of his own will!) instead of giving him a granola bar.
See my first answer. And I'm sure it's an explicit part of US policy to "make sure those damn African farmers starve."working against african farmers.
...yeah mc donalds are an okay company i guess. like hitler wasn't a bad guy.
Hahahahahahahahahaha
And this, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is the product of dogmatic socialist(typical western European) education(subsidized by the government, no doubt). It doesn't even deserve a reply - I rest my case.
Last edited by Raistlin; 08-20-2005 at 02:06 PM.
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