America for the win?

[Teek]

"Personal responsibility" is a foreign concept to the socialist character, and the same idea is being forgotten in this Africa bull.

Let's look at logic. There is a worthwhile debate in whether or not we should send foreign aid to Africa - and it's a worthwhile debate to discuss whether said aid would help.

Blame America for Africa's starvation because we aren't helping is so beyond all logic it's appalling. The laws of cause and effect dictates that you can't see an effect before there is a cause. Blame America because it won't help Africa and you're committing this exact same fallacy.

But like I said, things such as "logic", "freedom", "responsibility" and "justice" are lost.

edit: Regarding your last post, Cloud: God Bless America, where we don't enslave our people to those who demand that we do.

[Cloud No.9]

but we can see the causes, debt, subsidies and tarriffs. africa is starving and we know the cause.

[lordblazer]

yeah america's rich. it exploits and starves africa. that shows just what a lovely system it is. god bless a country which is responsible for 50,000 deaths a day. america is rich. and it's unwillingness to do anything with it's richness like end starvation and poverty is why it is greedy.

you made a good argument against yourself there.

it doesnt exploits africa we exploit china's and india. Get with the times man.....


Seriously though. Explain how do we exploit africa? I mean do ou understand that most african governments use the money that other countries give them and they do nothing with it.They just horde it.

That doesn't help poverty. WE have no responsiblity over it. Get over it cloud your in a losing arguement.

[Teek]

but we can see the causes, debt, subsidies and tarriffs. africa is starving and we know the cause.

Yep. Lack of lassiez-faire and Africa's laziness.

[Cloud No.9]

how america exploits african farmers.

america and the eu pay farmers for what they produce. this was to encourage over production to prevent starvation after the second world war. it led to all sorts of problems in europe. we had mountains of un used corn and lakes of undrank wine. this kills off the african farming as the western markets have artifcially cheaper food. this is all paid for by the tax payer. each cow in the subsidised natiosn receives a dollar a day for being a farmed cow. so african farmers can't get started as they are undercut by these subsidized goods.

then if they can export things they make and grow, there is a huge tax on it. which keeps our farmers and businesses even more safe. so the african farmer is screwed over twice. he is constantly undercut by subsidized goods and then taxed if he does export. so he goes out of business as he just can't make a profit. and the ones that can are pricing things too high so that their own people can't afford it.

either way results in famine.

and that is why subsides and tarriffs kill 50,000 people a day.

it's not about african governments. it's about screwing over african people.

[Teek]

how america exploits african farmers.

america and the eu pay farmers for what they produce. this was to encourage over production to prevent starvation after the second world war. it led to all sorts of problems in europe. we had mountains of un used corn and lakes of undrank wine. this kills off the african farming as the western markets have artifcially cheaper food. this is all paid for by the tax payer. each cow in the subsidised natiosn receives a dollar a day for being a farmed cow. so african farmers can't get started as they are undercut by these subsidized goods.

then if they can export things they make and grow, there is a huge tax on it. which keeps our farmers and businesses even more safe. so the african farmer is screwed over twice. he is constantly undercut by subsidized goods and then taxed if he does export. so he goes out of business as he just can't make a profit. and the ones that can are pricing things too high so that their own people can't afford it.

either way results in famine.

and that is why subsides and tarriffs kill 50,000 people a day.

Brilliant. I agree entirely. Unfortunately, socialism is starting to seep into American policies so like this has to happen. =(

it's not about african governments. it's about screwing over african people.

Nope. It's about them, too.

[Cloud No.9]

african government are not affected or have any influence over trade laws. it affects the african people and is controlled by the west.

[Teek]

No, but barbaric tribal wars/genocide and freedoms of an individual isn't helping, either.

[Cloud No.9]

when people are fed they can learn. when people are educated they will see the world around them and demand change.

[Endless]

For the record, in 2001, Africa+Middle-East exported $50,796,000,000 worth of products towards the NAFTA zone (USA, Canada, Mexico), which is still way less than the $95,948,000,000 it exported towards the EU. It also exported $45,152,000,000 towards Japan, too. Of course, all that pales in comparison of the EU<->EU trade ($1,275,544,000,000).

Edit: and EU->US + US->EU amounts to $406,368,000,000, roughly a third of EU->EU.

[Cloud No.9]

eu/us to eu/us trading keeps the rich rich and the poor poor. that is what needs to be broken and that is what subsidies and tarrifs are there to protect.

[Madame Adequate]

eu/us to eu/us trading keeps the rich rich and the poor poor. that is what needs to be broken and that is what subsidies and tarrifs are there to protect.

Cloud, we are totally agreeing with you here. I think trade barriers are awesomely flawed mechanisms, and I believe the world, as well as the west, would benefit in the extreme from completely abolishing trade barriers, import/export laws, and subsidies. We hate this crippling socialist malaise just as much as you, but we don't believe they outweigh all the good things about western societies.