Thingfish's Riddle

[Thingfish]

It might be enough, but I seriously doubt it, Sir.B. If you solved the real-world references, then that would aid you greatly. The whole last verse is rather difficult though. Other verses can help you solve it though

[Sir Bahamut]

Leaving the hardest for the end, huh?

And I was afraid it wouldn't be enough. Well, solving the real world references will be the next thing to do then. I suppose they will give us the non-vulgar meaning of the parts in question. But for the other lines with deeper meaning not rooted in a real world reference, exactly how hard do you think it will be to crack those?

[Thingfish]

I order of difficulty, starting with the easiest, I would say the verses would appear in the order 1,2,5,3,4. The fourth is certainly the most difficult, as it is the one that divulges the full name of the answer. 3 and 5 are probably equally hard.

1, 3, 4 and 5 have real-world references, verse 3 having the one regarding media, verse 4 regarding nature and verses 1 and 5 regarding history and literature.

Obviously, not the whole of those verses refer to real-world things, but sections of them which don't are just as hard

Gwaha!

[Sir Bahamut]

Here's the current analysis of the riddle as we know it:

VERSE 1

Paragon of a mute usurper, I.

Translates to: "I am a mute usurper", where "I" is the answer.

Mute hasn't completely been cracked yet, but it's clearly metaphorical. I believe it basically means that the answer isn't very obvious, or doesn't make him(her?)self known very well. This fits in nicely with the fact that Thingfish believes most people will never have heard of the answer before ever.

Usurper here basically means that the answer takes over something. It could naturally be anything that is taken over though, so that's all we have on this line.

To Occident and Orient adjunct.

The answer carries out his "profession" in the east and the west. This may also simply be saying that he can be found in the east and the west, as Thingfish said he moves around the place.

Note that whatever profession the answer has, if it is a profession in a regular sense, is unknown.

Mine avocation, dearth to pacify,
By rubicund umbrage nigh-on defunct.

Rearrange this and we realise that this says: "My avocation, which is to pacify dearth, is nigh-on defunct because of 'rubicund umbrage'".

Translate this again and we have something along these lines: My 'job', which is to reduce the shortage of 'something', is 'dying'(in a metaphorical sense of course) due to 'rubicund umbrage'.

Rubicund umbrage literally translated means a 'red shade'. What this refers to is unknown. Tt is not fire, or a red mage at least. Can't remember any other guesses here. This is an unsolved phrase basically.

NOTES:

* This verse contains a reference towards litterature and/or history(is it only one of them or both?).

VERSE 2

O, keen watchman to mine own, falter not,
To vouchsafe designs most astronomic.

The watchman to [the answer] is the person who reveals the answers name. You see, when you speak to the answer, he/she has a title along the lines of "Fisher" or "Soldier" or something mundane like that. However, this 'watchman' reveals his or her real name on only one occassion. It is this real name which is the answer to the riddle.

Now, this watchman also has some designs he is supposed to deliver/put into action. These designs are not the answers. The designs are astronomic both in the metaphoric and literal sense(ie. they are grand but also related to stars and such).

Misplaced pursuit doth leave much truth forgot,

Much to my surprise, this is merely a warning to us riddlers not to take the wrong path. In other words, if we concentrate on the wrong things, we will not find the answer.

Affinity only one may mimic.

This line stands by itself, but what it refers to is unknown.

NOTES:

* This verse has no real world references.


VERSE 3

In anterior regard, quite absent,
Yet present, attending interregnum.

While the heir is quite visible at the forefront of things, the answer is not. Despite not appearing to be in the forefront, the answer is still there in the background, attending interregnum. Interregnum signifies the gap between two periods. What exactly the interregnun lies between is unknown, and could be virtually anything.

Note that this seems to be more of the superfitial(yet valid) interpretation. There is more analysis to be done here.

Contrary to self, mine heir apparent,
Abide, thou dost, foremost, and in tandem.

Unlike the answer, the heir is easily visible(foremost) and is in tandem.
This line probably also has a deeper meaning though. Furhter analysis must be done.

NOTES:

* This verse contains a real world reference to media.

VERSE 4

Confused, the vulgar see vengeful death's course,
Heaven's flute scourged, even focus slaughtered.
Yet displace determiner from this source,
A riotous assembly remembered.

"This source" is here the first two lines. They make out a rioutous assembly of letters which must be re-membered(ie. rearranged) before we can remove the determiner "the".

Basically, the two first lines of this verse contain a very complex puzzle concerning the letters of the lines. Once you have correctly rearranged them, you must remove the word "the". By succesfully doing this, the puzzle will give us the full name of the answer.

However, since the reward is so great, the puzzle is so hard that it is not recommended to focus on it. Besides this puzzle, the verse does not contain any useful information.

VERSE 5

Verse 5 is still being worked on.

[Lenna]

Confused, the vulgar see vengeful death's course,
Heaven's flute scourged, even focus slaughtered.
Yet displace determiner from this source,
A riotous assembly remembered.

"This source" is here the first two lines. They make out a rioutous assembly of letters which must be re-membered(ie. rearranged) before we can remove the determiner "the".

Basically, the two first lines of this verse contain a very complex puzzle concerning the letters of the lines. Once you have correctly rearranged them, you must remove the word "the". By succesfully doing this, the puzzle will give us the full name of the answer.

If I remember correctly, Thingfish didn't say that the answer to the riddle was in that puzzle. I believe he merely said that after solving that part of the riddle we'd be in stage 2 where he'd give us a better detail into what we need to do next. I don't think he said that rearranging those letters would actually give us the answer's name.

Regardless of if he said that the answer is in the fourth verse or not.

Yep if you read my post before, you shall see that all the hints/clues I posted were quotes said specifically by Thingfish. Amongst them was this:

Confused, the vulgar see vengeful death's course,
Heaven's flute scourged, even focus slaughtered.

Look at the two lines more closely, and after you've worked how the puzzle within them, which is unfortunately very, very difficult, only then remove the 'the'.
the puzzle has to do with the actual letters.
(We have to arrange the letters)

working out the first stage of the puzzle of those two lines won't tell you anything about the name of the answer. That's the hard part about the second stage

[Mercen-X]

A few questions, Thing. You mentioned that there is a reference to a tree. Is this an actual living tree or like a "family tree", a diagram depicting ancestry?

If it is a real tree of any size, shape, or form, then is the tree the heir as for what I've read of Lenna's report, it has not been mentioned.

Also a detail I haven't found, is the watchman obscure like the answer or is it more easily identifiable?

[Thingfish]

Sir. B. : I said the 4th verse is the hardest, and, indeed, the first stage of the puzzle of its first two lines doesn't tell you the answer. Once you've worked out what the first stage is, then the second stage leads you to an idea that then can be discerned as the name of the answer.

Mercen-X : The tree is not a family tree, rather a real tree. It is not the heir. The watchman is more easily identifiable, but still obscure.

[Sir Bahamut]

Sorry, a bit of confusion there. Well, I'm not doing any more tonight, but tomorrow I'll see if I can't figure out what the first line of the last verse refers to, since I believe you said that was the reference in that verse.

Any help is of course appreciated.

[Lenna]

I'd help a little but as I've mentioned before I'm out in Edinburgh and I don't have my game with me to look into. Although Sir. B, I shall make sure to tell TF off *giggle* for making his riddle so hard tomorrow in person!

And sorry for pointing out your mistake in your post.. I guess I am a bit of a pest sometimes :P *smiles sweetly*

BTW do both lines of the puzzle need to be rearranged? Or just some specific words? Because I'm confused as to how all the letters could be rearranged. And if both lines do need to be rearranged, do they show a whole sentence? or merely just a few words?

[Thingfish]

BTW do both lines of the puzzle need to be rearranged? Or just some specific words? Because I'm confused as to how all the letters could be rearranged. And if both lines do need to be rearranged, do they show a whole sentence? or merely just a few words?

It certainly is a puzzler, isn't it?

[brother's bigger brother]

just tel use the god dam answer

[Sir Bahamut]

Lenna: Not at all, please do correct me. I'm finding more and more that when I leave the riddle alone for a while, I forget all sorts of information. I guess that's what happens when the riddle is so big And I naturally understand if you are not capable of assisting. But, and I hope I don't sound like an ass now, I should point out, that you do not need the game to help. I haven't even touched my copy of FF9 once since I started on this riddle. But yeah, if you're on holiday, please do spend your time as you wish.

By the way, are you two actually meeting in person?

[Thingfish]

Yes, tomorrow afternoon, and Loony Bob is apparently popping along too. Don't worry, though, I won't be divulging any riddling secrets

[Sir Bahamut]

Really? Have fun then!

[Thingfish]

Hope she doesn't get me drunk, or I may accidentally give away the riddle answer in my inebriated stupor and this whole thing will be for naught...

:yellowkin