I come back to EoFF after a short absense, and all Hell breaks loose!

[udsuna]

Yeah, well... I'd love to see that particular thread. Because I think they underestimated what it feels like for most people to suddenly have other people flaunt how easy it is to **** with their lives. For no reason other than amusement?

Like I said before... the real irony is that it never hit me directly. But I've seen its influence wash down the boards... it will take months for the damage to heal. What about Firesky's recent thread... how many of support group don't even realize that she's having problems? I can't even guess. But she'll have to wonder why some of her friends haven't said anything to her. There is nothing in the world funny enough to be worth doing that to her.

Right now, that's the only example I have. It's been surprisingly stable for people lately. Which, considering the time is right there with returning to school and all that stress, is nothing but dumb luck.

[Shlup]

How did this "harm" you? How did it "smurf with your life"? How did it effect Firesky? I mean, really, where's the proof that it effected anyone in any significant way?

[Sepho]

I'm going to adopt a realist persona for a moment.

These fora are here for your enjoyment, but EoFF isn't a democracy. The staff has the freedom to do these things arbitrarily, just as you have the freedom to come and go as you please. You post here to have fun, and I don't imagine you'd stay long if you weren't having fun. There are million other message boards on the web, and I'd guess there's at least a few that are suitable for any given person.

I thought it was fun. That's why I'm here.

Now I feel like a jerk. Thanks a lot EoFF

[Shlup]

You are a jerk, jerk. How dare you state the truth.

[udsuna]

In my experience, the worst violations are violations of trust. So many people out there trust this forum, and the staff with it. Even if that trust is misplaced. (Something I learned during the last of these... but I thought that was nothing but an annual thing).

And the last one certainly affected me, and this one obviously affected plenty. Amongst other lessons: we cannot trust the moderators.

As for Firesky, she'd have to speak for herself, but she hasn't been on the forum lately. I'm using her name to speak for a situation, not for a person. And judging from this thread http://eyesonff.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68641, I don't think we can really calculate the potential for danger. And it could have been anyone. It's like firing a gun strait up in a building. Yeah, it'll probably just get attention.... but the potential for ricoche is very real.

EDIT: Sepho... I'm not here for the community as a whole. I'm here for the individuals. Some good people, who have my trust and respect, have been and/or are a part of this place. I'm here because I like knowing them, and sharing an interest with them. I'm not here to watch people treat a legitimate community as some kind of playground for their own personal sadisms.

[Shlup]

If you can't say how the joke effected Firesky, you can't use her name to suggest that the joke may have effected her. If the only complaints people have are that they were briefly annoyed, or annoyed at the idea that someone else who hasn't spoken up may have been effected in some obscure manner, then you really have no complaint at all.

As for the matter of trust, that's on you. If you feel the ocassional joke makes the staff untrustworthy you are free to find a new message board to enjoy. The staff isn't going to stop pleasing themselves and others to satisfy people who are welcome to leave.

[Big D]

When staff don't do any crazy stuff, people say the place is dull and the staff are unimaginative.

I missed the start of yesterday's diverting malarkey, so I had no say in it, but for the most part it seems to be a positive. I disagree with the arbitrary bannings, since some people will inevitable think they're real. Some folks could've, and apparently were, under the impression that they really had been cut off from a valued mode of communication with people they like. But the rest worked just fine. It gave everyone something to talk about, anyway.

A couple of people got upset when Dr Unne went on a rampage, banning everyone who used an Unne avatar; approximately nobody got upset when he went on a rampage, swearing at edczxcvbnm. Bleys used to pull some wild pranks back in his day, and they always got sorted out and looked funny in retrospect.

Udsuna, staff are human too. We run the place, and used to be regular members here as well, so we know full well what happens. But since we have this 'power' and 'authority' and whatnot, it's important to show that it's not taken too seriously. The occasional shenanigans keep staff in the spotlight, rather than just as some behind-closed-doors, secret society kind of thing.

Cloud no.9, EoFF isn't a democracy, it's basically a self-perpetuating oligarchy. New staff are chosen by current staff, based on staff consensus as to who's a responsible, rule-abiding, productive and harmonious member of the forum. EoFF isn't really "ruled"; staff basically just maintain and moderate the place.

For the most part, I agree with what Shlup's been saying - but in a slightly less harsh kind of way

[udsuna]

So, the bullet missed. Maybe. Since no one's talked to her recently, we couldn't know, could we? And even if everything came out fine, it was nothing but dumb luck. Gambling... with the emotional wellbeing of other people... that's just sick.

[Shlup]

"The bullet"? Oh, don't be such a drama queen.

[Big D]

So, the bullet missed. Maybe. Since no one's talked to her recently, we couldn't know, could we? And even if everything came out fine, it was nothing but dumb luck. Gambling... with the emotional wellbeing of other people... that's just sick.

Yeah, you should totally see the thread in the staff forum. Here are a few quotes:

"Hey, let's gamble with everyone's emotional wellbeing. It'll be totally cool!"

"Right on, I'm gonna go smurf with some lives."

"Hey, save some for me - you know I like unleashing hatred and mistrust, since that's the whole reason we're here!"

Actually, no. No harm was ever intended or hoped for. Look at things from others' perspectives for a while, and you might gain an appreciation of where they're coming from.

Edit: Look at it this way... I was an "innocent victim" of this prank, yet I'm stuck with a different avatar and username until Kishi decides to fix it. Everyone else got unbanned; all the spam got closed or deleted - but we're stuck with obscure game references.

[udsuna]

I've been saying that you're free to have your fun. No one's saying you can't. But that "fun" disrupted more of this community than people seem to realize. If nothing else, EoEo should be a safe zone where stuff like this shouldn't be able to touch. Let's face it, no one should expect general chat to be safe from anything (except, perhaps, sanity). And EoTW may be serious, but it isn't as emotional or personal.

Why can't you keep your pranks limitted to INDIVIDUALS? That whole thing with Unne... if I'd been notified, I'd probably have joined in. And I wouldn't have complained when the game was played back. I can take what I dish out. But people who weren't involved, didn't want to be involved, and rightfully got upset when they were forced to be involved... they're the ones I'm here defending. Me and whomever else around here has the balls to voice outrage.

And nothing about my bullet reference was "drama queen" material. Simply an analogy. You know something else that's dangerous, unpredictable, and utterly beyond your control once it's been unleashed? It was bullet or avalanch... and nothing about this should be glorified by giving it the status of an act of god.

Oh.... and "see from another's perspective".... I do believe I requested to see that thread. I asked already. I meant it. No sarcasm.

[Big D]

Why can't you keep your pranks limitted to INDIVIDUALS? That whole thing with Unne... if I'd been notified, I'd probably have joined in. And I wouldn't have complained when the game was played back. I can take what I dish out. But people who weren't involved, didn't want to be involved, and rightfully got upset when they were forced to be involved...

If pranks were 'limited to individuals', then there'd be about a million Feedback threads from people outraged at being personally targetted for ridicule. When a prank's general, no-one's singled out. But when particular individuals are chosen, there's more of a risk they'll feel bad about it.

Me and whomever else around here has the balls to voice outrage.

If you check the announcements, you'll find that staff have apoligised for the disruption and confusion caused by the malarkey.

You know something else that's dangerous, unpredictable, and utterly beyond your control once it's been unleashed?

Well... there's killer viruses and bacteria, they're kinda nasty. So is malicious rumour and gossip - that can genuinely harm lives and get people in court too. Some wild animals are extremely difficult to control, too, once they've been unleashed.

[rubah]

Why do you think we've been banning people that have been messing with your 'EoEO safezone'?

Really, I think you over estimate the value of most of the threads in eoeo. *many* (I did not say all, so dont' try to imply that I did xD) of them are teenage problems, as can be plainly seen by the impressively long 'kissing' thread. The serious threads are rather rare, actually.

Unfortunately though, I don't think we have an 'everything but eoeo' ban at the current time. Perhaps you should suggest one?

[udsuna]

If pranks were 'limited to individuals', then there'd be about a million Feedback threads from people outraged at being personally targetted for ridicule. When a prank's general, no-one's singled out. But when particular individuals are chosen, there's more of a risk they'll feel bad about it

I meant people who chose to be involved. Plenty like the humor. I do believe I also suggested an "opt out" where people can label as not wanting to participate in these stupid little games. Naturally, those who start stuff should be willing to deal with it, but for the rest of us... can't you just leave us alone?

You know something else that's dangerous, unpredictable, and utterly beyond your control once it's been unleashed?

Well... there's killer viruses and bacteria, they're kinda nasty. So is malicious rumour and gossip - that can genuinely harm lives and get people in court too. Some wild animals are extremely difficult to control, too, once they've been unleashed.

Microbes fall under forces of nature/acts of god. Wild animals imply lack of thought or responsibility. And it's really hard to use gossip as an analogy. For anything.

And you're right, Rubah... at this moment, EoEo is in a relaxed slump. By which, I pointed out, is nothing but luck. And that "teenage stuff" has cost too many lives. The reasons may be idiotic, but the consequences are very, very real.... I thought that you'd have understood that.


EDIT: Checked the announcements. I see one person apologizing. One. Of how many?

[Leeza]

EDIT: Checked the announcements. I see one person apologizing. One. Of how many?

You want me to apologize? I wasn't even involved because I was at work, but I will apologize for any harm that has been done to you and now I've got this silly name till someone decides to change it back. (It's kind of cute actually. )

I really don't see what the big deal here is. In the big picture, this is only a little forum in the interweb of a huge universe. Small potatoes really. And as rubah has said, the forums here that require trust are being taken care of as all of the EoEO Bannings should demonstrate.