Plot Theories

[Christmas]

Oops,I am sorry,I think I don´t explained things well.

I mean,the sorceress is wise and has knowlwdge about many things including GF.
She knows that GF led to memory loss and then suggest Cid to stablish the use of it on Garden.

There is no telling who suggested the use of GF in the garden(NORG,Cid...etc) and only Balamb garden uses GF so Selphie wasn't included in the brainwash program and she got brainwashed out of mere coincidence. Are you going to say that the monster that Selphie killed that came along with a GF is actually something Edea masterminded?

And eventually. we all knew that Edea just give the idea of Garden and SeeD to Cid and it is Cid and NORG that make things happens and the management of the Garden revolved around the two of them and not Edea.

So you cannot jump to the conclusions of GF usage in the Garden is suggested by Edea.

[Future Esthar]

Alright,let´s just concentrate on the inicial theory (the one about dreams and memories) since that is the one who don´t go behind logic.

[Christmas]

You said that Ellone implanted the memories but as usual do you have any evidence that she do so. If not, you just base it own your imaginations or logic of yours and there isn't any point of discussing it since it will lead to senseless arguements.

I can't said it doesn't happen nor do it happen but from the game we knew it didn't happen and anyway, Ellone only have the ability to send one consicous to the past as suggested by the game and implanting memories is other matter which you will only know.

Lastly, if you have any graphical details to support this, feel free to post it.

[Future Esthar]

UNKNOWNS,I NEVER SAID THAT ELLONE PLANTED MEMORIES ON THEIR BRAIN .PLEASE,ASK BG-57 TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT I REALLY SAID.HE ALREADY UNDERSTOOD.
I will repeat this reply many times if you keep saying that.

Is the concept of remembering your own dreams new to you?

[Christmas]

UNKNOWNS,I NEVER SAID THAT ELLONE PLANTED MEMORIES ON THEIR BRAIN .PLEASE,ASK BG-57 TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT I REALLY SAID.HE ALREADY UNDERSTOOD.
I will repeat this reply many times if you keep saying that.

Is the concept of remembering your own dreams new to you?

I do understand your theory and it is you that dun understand.

That Ellone implanted their memories instead of them remembering it on their own? Or she sent them back in time and they witness their childhood which they interpret as memories?

So Ellone implanted real memories to them instead of them remembering on their own, so Ellone did IMPLANTED memory to them isn't it?

[BG-57]

Can you think of a better way to brainwash hundreds of children?

Well, it's one way to do it, although the chain of events seems unlikely to me. Although I was just asking Future Esthar if that's what he thinks.

That Ellone implanted their memories instead of them remembering it on their own? Or she sent them back in time and they witness their childhood which they interpret as memories?

So Ellone implanted real memories to them instead of them remembering on their own, so Ellone did IMPLANTED memory to them isn't it?

I'm pretty sure Future Esthar agreed with the second question and not the first. When he asked me to post his Ellone theory in my own words I said:

Apparently Future Esthar is suggesting that Ellone sent the main characters back in time to witness their childhood at the orphanage. So they never really remembered growing up in the orphanage, they just witnessed it and thought it was memories. This is an alternative to the earlier theory that the GF's mentally blocked the paths to the memories.

He hasn't contradicted me on this count.

I don't see an inherent impossibilty against Ellone sending them back to witness an event that they couldn't recall on their own. In those circumstances it would quite reasonable for them to mistake a past event as a memory.

Still, it's much more likely they remembered their childhood at Irvine's prompting.

[Christmas]

My apologies. Anyway, since you said it yourself:

There is no conclusion.This is a conclusion itself.

Whether they remembered it on their own or they just thought they remember after witnessing it still give the outcome that the memories become theirs or they think it's theirs and it is a fact that those are memories.

So whether did it happened we never knows but we might know if you have something to support it.

Anyway:

When I was a little kid... I was about 4 or so... I was in an orphanage

If they witness it and didn't remember it, then they just saw the kid image of themselves but able to get the correct age right just base on the appearance of a kid might or might not be that easy. But still it is possible due to the "or so", althought I dun think so.

All with no parents... It was around the end of
the Sorceress War

So that they just witness all their kid's events but being able to guess the timeline of those events is a question unless the timeline is mentioned during the dream by someone since whatever they saw is whatever they know.

But if think they will bother to base their age(seen in their dream) according to the events happening in their world to predict the timeline just to mention the Sorceress War, then I honestly think they won't go to the trouble of it.

Irvine: I really liked this girl, and it made me so happy just talking to her.

Feelings came from the inner heart. So when Irvine witness his kid event in the dream and saw the kid version of himself fond of Selphie, so he will simply think he like Selphie just because he saw it without remembering it.Dun you think he will think twice before saying this and not lie to his feelings just because he witness something that he cannot remember?

[Future Esthar]

Implant is not the right word.
She uses her ability ONLY and they just remember their own REAL dream.
There is another possibility.A best one which joins Skyblade´s theory and mine´s.
Maybe they dreamed about their childhood and it activates the memories they already had.You know,when a person has amnesia they don´t just remember everything immediately when someone tell them about it.
But a picture (or film) would do it better than words.
Anyway,Irvine know about his age,his feelings and about the war because her ability not only let them see the past but it´s like they WERE THERE so they just experience the feeings and the thoughts.

[Christmas]

Implant is not the right word.
She uses her ability ONLY and they just remember their own REAL dream.
There is another possibility.A best one which joins Skyblade´s theory and mine´s.
Maybe they dreamed about their childhood and it activates the memories they already had.

So they remembered the memories.

You know,when a person has amnesia they don´t just remember everything immediately when someone tell them about it.
But a picture (or film) would do it better than words.

So in the end the person will recover his memories from amnesia which is a form of remembering.

Anyway,Irvine know about his age,his feelings and about the war because her ability not only let them see the past but it´s like they WERE THERE so they just experience the feeings and the thoughts.

Squall and CO also had the experience you spoke of when being transported to Laguna's dream world but they never remembered anything cause this is not their memories.They just knew about it.

So if they are transported to their own past and experience the past themselves with feelings and all this, it is as good as remembering it cause knowing it will never give the feelings and experience done by remembering itself.

From what I read, look more like they remembering it instead of knowing it now.

PS: And I apologize again for not reading the posts properly.

[Future Esthar]

I think you get it now.Apologizes accepted.

[G SpOtZ]

i thought they explained ellones powers in the game clearly enough

[Christmas]

Ok, I still dun think it make any sense since this is what is interpreted:

Apparently Future Esthar is suggesting that Ellone sent the main characters back in time to witness their childhood at the orphanage. So they never really remembered growing up in the orphanage, they just witnessed it and thought it was memories. This is an alternative to the earlier theory that the GF's mentally blocked the paths to the memories.

So you said they never remembered but witnessed and knew it but now I am telling you they remembered as imply by the game and you said I got it....here is something:

I don't see an inherent impossibilty against Ellone sending them back to witness an event that they couldn't recall on their own. In those circumstances it would quite reasonable for them to mistake a past event as a memory.

So this is what you are implying but this is what I am trying to prove:

Still, it's much more likely they remembered their childhood at Irvine's prompting.

NVM, just drop this subject.....

[Future Esthar]

So this is what you are implying but this is what I am trying to prove:


Originally Posted by BG-57:
Still, it's much more likely they remembered their childhood at Irvine's prompting.

As I said,one person with amnesia just don´t remember everything when someone tell them.They recover memory gradually.
However,since they already witness their past on their dreams,they realized that the dream was real when Irvine speaks about his childhood.
Note that Irvine didn´t tell them it was a stone house by the sea.They realize it themselves and Irvine confirmed it.
They compared the events they remebered about the dream with what Irvine told them.
However,I don´t think they realized about having it as a dream.
Whether the memory was already on the memory section of the brain or not that´s irrelevant.

[Christmas]

As I said,one person with amnesia just don´t remember everything when someone tell them.They recover memory gradually.

It is interpreted as "never remembered" and you agreed to it. Now you change again and said they "slowly remembered" .

However,since they already witness their past on their dreams,they realized that the dream was real when Irvine speaks about his childhood.
Note that Irvine didn´t tell them it was a stone house by the sea.They realize it themselves and Irvine confirmed it.
They compared the events they remebered about the dream with what Irvine told them.
However,I don´t think they realized about having it as a dream.
Whether the memory was already on the memory section of the brain or not that´s irrelevant.

So in the end they remembered it instead of just "thinking" that they remembered? Anyway, if you still think they never remembered, go read post #69 where I post some points to support that they remembered.

[Skyblade]

As I said,one person with amnesia just don´t remember everything when someone tell them.They recover memory gradually.

As I said, it is likely that the neural pathways that allowed concious recollection of the memories were what were replaced by the GF. It's not amnesia, which is an inability to recall, or they would never have been able to remember even when reminded. The idea that Ellone "planted" the memories is one of your stupidest ideas. First, the game gives no indication that Ellone has any power to change memories, she can only make person A relive person B's memories. Second, it was known by many that GFs can cause memory problems. Selphie mentions it in her diary long before the scene at Trabia, and Quistis mentions that it is an arguement used by GF critics.