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Thread: Stealing

  1. #16

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    Spirit has nothing to do with magic defence, aside from spells that may inflict a negative status. Even then it has nothing to do with how much damage you might take from those spells initially (like Bio).

    Lou, I'll test the stealing/Spirit thing in about an hour if you're still interested, right now I'm doing homework. btw...

    The instruction booklet that comes with FFIX says that a higher Spirit increased that likelihood of success for stealing, Iai Strike, Shock, etc. ect. and increased the likelihood of success and longevity of status effects.
    I have never seen Shock miss its target. Have you?

  2. #17
    SeeDRankLou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftReset
    I have never seen Shock miss its target. Have you?
    I don't know, I might have been thinking of Thunder Slash, wasn't there another one of Steiner's skills that didn't always hit?

  3. #18

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    Thunder Slash has a messed-up hit percentage... I've heard it only works against specific enemies. Lai Strike and such, they're hit-or-miss.

    I'm in the process of testing right now. I'll edit this post as it happens.

    Zidane, 255 Spirit, Lv.1, vs a Python:

    1. Stole Ore
    2. Couldn't steal anything
    3. Stole Potion
    4. Couldn't steal anything
    5. Couldn't steal anything
    6. Couldn't steal anything
    7. Couldn't steal anything
    8. Stole Hi-Potion
    9. Couldn't steal anything
    10. Couldn't steal anything
    11. Couldn't steal anything

    ...and that's where I stop testing. Level may play a role though, I'll try boosting that to 255 as well.

    -

    255 Level, Speed, and Spirit, vs a Python:

    (First off, two Criticals in a row against the other party members. Also, with 255 of both Level and Spirit Trance will never wear off in battle by the looks of it)

    1. Stole Potion
    2. Couldn't steal anything
    3. Couldn't steal anything
    4. Couldn't steal anything
    5. Couldn't steal anything
    6. Stole Ore
    7. Couldn't steal anything
    8. Couldn't steal anything
    9. Couldn't steal anything

    ...and I stop here.
    Last edited by SoftReset; 08-30-2005 at 03:45 AM.

  4. #19

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    Do you think it could be a different stat the increases the steal rate? I've never heard anything about stealing being more successful if a certain stat is higher though. But I did try stealing the Fairy Flute, I tried for an hour and a half, and nothing. If SeeDRankLou got it in a half hour, that's pretty impressive. Maybe a stat does increase the chance of stealing... there may have been another stat that was increased/decreased that made it easier for him to steal.
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  5. #20

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    It seems pretty randomized to me, I think its one of those random-number-generator things, where you either get a good roll or you don't.

    My last game I stole everything Beatrix had in all three fights. I had never done that before no matter how hard I tried, but this time it just happened.

  6. #21

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    Against the... boss in the Iifa Tree, I've stollen every item in succession every time I've played. I think it may be difficult for certain items naturally... and like you said, pretty much randomly easier or more difficult to steal those items.
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  7. #22
    SeeDRankLou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftReset
    It seems pretty randomized to me, I think its one of those random-number-generator things, where you either get a good roll or you don't.
    Yeah, that probably does have something to do with it as well, there are quite a few of those in this game.

  8. #23

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    Quite a few indeed SeeDRankLou. E.g: Tetra Master. Face two opposing arrows together and both the cards generate a number. On my game - for some bizarre reason - the red card always wins. Even an 0P00 Goblin Card against a 6M2P Ifrit will still leave the Goblin an advantage.

    Maybe they program a different set of values and luck into each game… ***Conspiracy!***

    ………Or maybe my game's mucked up, I don't know.

  9. #24
    Guy Fawkes Masamune·1600's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Cal
    Quite a few indeed SeeDRankLou. E.g: Tetra Master. Face two opposing arrows together and both the cards generate a number. On my game - for some bizarre reason - the red card always wins. Even an 0P00 Goblin Card against a 6M2P Ifrit will still leave the Goblin an advantage.

    Maybe they program a different set of values and luck into each game… ***Conspiracy!***

    ………Or maybe my game's mucked up, I don't know.
    There is an inherent randomness to Tetra Master values, but that variability is very limited. Here's something I wrote on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Masamune∙1600
    [...]there are two kinds of defense to a Tetra Master card. Note that there are four symbols per card. The first (P) is the power (attack) value, the second (T) is the card type, the third (D) is the physical defense value, and the fourth (M) is the magic defense value. These symbols correspond to various hexadecimal values. You may note that P, M, and D can range between 0 (the number) and F; these symbols sum up hexadecimal values from 0F to FF. Because of how the hexadecimal system works here, each symbol has a randomly determined value. 0 (0F) can range from 0-15. 1 (1F) can range from 16-30. This range of 15 continues to F, where the value is 240-255. These are the numbers that appear when one card attacks another. The T symbol can be either P, M, X, or A. If the card has a P, it will attack the physical defense of a card. If it has M, it will attack the magic defense of a card. If it has X, it will attack D or M (whichever is lower). If it has A, it will attack the lowest number (P, D, or M) of the opposing card.

    By this logic, the most powerful statistical card would read FAFF; the weakest card would read 0(P or M)00.

    Unfortunately, even with a far superior card, you can still sometimes lose. The following is taken from Trifthen's Tetra Master FAQ on GameFAQs.

    Quote:
    There is one final possibility remaining. If a card is placed next
    to another card, and they both have arrows pointing at each other,
    a battle ensues.

    card 1 | card 2
    _____________
    |\ | |
    | -|- -|
    |/ | | \|
    -------------

    The above placement would result in a card battle. Each battle has
    three phases where different numbers are displayed.

    Phase 1:
    * Each card has a power as discussed previously. This value falls
    between the min and max listed in the table. Each card also has
    a defense fitting the the above chart.

    A B
    Example : 4P22 attacks 1M01

    The first number that appears on card A is its attack power, say
    70 (4 = between 64 and 79). Card A is a physical card, and card
    B has 0 physical defense, so the first number to appear on card
    B is its defense, say 7 (0 = between 0 and 16).

    Phase 2:
    # Next, the computer rolls a number between 0 and the number shown
    in phase 1. This will be the *actual* attack or defense. Let's
    say it rolls a 66 for card A, and 1 for card B.

    Phase 3:
    # The number rolled in phase 2 is subtracted from the number in
    phase 1. This guarantees that the number will be positive, and
    the highest number wins. So:

    Card A: 70 - 66 : 4
    Card B: 7 - 1 : 6

    There are a few things this should tell you :

    1.) Higher rolls are BAD. You want low rolls so less is subtracted
    from the total number.
    2.) A weak card can defeat a strong card if the roll is in its favor,
    look at how the 1M01 defended itself against a 4P22.

    If you want to know how likely a card is to win a battle, here's the
    basic formula:

    1 + Power of Weak
    100 * (1 - ----------------------)
    2*(1+ Power of Strong)

    So in our example, you have:

    1 + 7 142 - 8 136
    100 * ( 1 - --------- ) = 100 * --- --- = 100 * --- = 94.4%
    2(1 + 70) 142 142 142

    So in our example, card A will win the battle 94% of the time. But
    in the example of the battle, it lost because of a bad roll; that's
    the 6% it loses.

    But, since you may not know attack/defense values right away, you
    can get a basic idea. Using our example again, take the maximum
    attack card A could have (79) and the lowest defense card B can have
    (0) and use our equation. The result is 99.4%. Now, take the minimum
    attack card A can have (64) and the maximum defense card B can have
    (15) and use our equation. The result is 87.7%.

    So, in our example, if you don't know the values of the cards fighting
    it out, card A will have a 88-100% chance of beating card B if it
    is attacking.

    If you played card A, good job. You would have won the card battle,
    but you had a 6% chance of losing, and lost. Your opponent now
    controls both cards. If you had won, you'd control both cards.

    (end quote)


    This is the aspect of Tetra Master that most bothers me. Even having figured out the hexadecimal system behind the cards, and utterly outplaying an opponent, one can still lose based on simple bad luck. Clearly, however, the odds would be in your favor.

    Some of the statistical ideas I've addressed may be a little daunting at first, but they're not really complicated once you stop and consider them.

    To summarize what's important: the first value attacks defense (third or fourth value). It will attack the third if it is P, the fourth if it is M, the lower of the two if it is X, and the lowest value of the opposing card if it is A.
    As to the matter of Stealing, it's really rather confusing. FFVI and FFVII involve the levels of both the character stealing and the opponent being stolen from in the formula, but (given SoftReset's experiment) that doesn't seem to be the case here. FFV, though, used an algorithm that was almost wholly random and didn't take statistics into account. That would be my guess as to what's at work here, although I certainly can't say for sure.

  10. #25
    tranvanhieu's Avatar
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    Stealing is one of the best ability there is in FF series.
    I love it.
    And in FFX IU used to steal alot especially in boss fight.
    And with my experience so far,I find that a boss often has three items.
    After I have stolen two first items,it become very hard to take the last one(and extremely hard to get if the last item is rare)I think the odd of getting item decrease after you steal sucessful.
    So,I try to get rare items first(save the game before stealing and load everytime Zidane steal a normal item,I used ePSXe,only go on if Zidane has stolen the best item I want).

  11. #26

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    What is Lai strike? Is it just short for something?

  12. #27
    Guy Fawkes Masamune·1600's Avatar
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    Most likely, Iai Strike's name is derived from iaido (or iaijutsu), a Japanese martial art which involves quickly drawing one's blade and striking an opponent. Given the sheer speed and brutality involved, it seems like an appropriate name for a death technique.
    Last edited by Masamune·1600; 09-11-2005 at 03:29 AM.

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