eugh...*shocked*

[Destai]

I saw the clips from the Nausia a couple of days ago. I was ill from watching them. The Nausia is a site showing horrible Terroist actions. This really opened my eyes on the terror on the world. The stuff I saw on that page was sick. Like that Kent Baily ( I think thats his name ) from Liverpool. He was caught. And beheaded sickly because Tony Blair didnt release the prisinors that he kept. The fact that these people are serious about this. And that they operate here in UK. Im getting kinda worried on where to go. The Bombs in UK really means that they can target anywhere. And that these people dont care what happens and could target me if they wanted. So, are you affraid of the terror around you ?

( treasure my place here too much to provide a link to The Nausia )

You're a lot more likely to die crossing the road outside your house than by terorist bomb. I wouldnt be too bothered.

[War Angel]

we actually got english translations.

Yes, because those translations are good and authentic, true to the source! Not.

murder of civillians is spoke against greatly.

Where, in the Kor'an? No, it isn't. As far as I know, the killing of civilians isn't even mentioned in the Kor'an, as it doesn't really bother or interest anyone. Back in those days, the killing of innocent wasn't such a big deal - villages were pillaged, women were raped, and it was all legit. Today, everyone who's not a soldier, is innocent. Back then, merely being part of a people or a nation meant that you were not innocent, and worthy of the same fate as any soldier. Every war was a total one.

You're a lot more likely to die crossing the road outside your house than by terorist bomb. I wouldnt be too bothered.

That chance depends heavily on where you live.

[Cloud No.9]

"Back then, merely being part of a people or a nation meant that you were not innocent." that is not strictly true. it was practiced happily in the second world war. total war dictates that civillians support the government and army and so by killung them you are destroying the resources of the enemy. isn't the whole not murdering part all talked about when that guy goes up mount sinai?

and as far as them not being trustworthy as translations. the bible was translated by an english king. it used to be read in some other funny language (latin i think) but he employed a few folk to translated it so the uneducated could read (at the same time he created the church of england and stopped being catholic). the bible in that way is not in it's orginal form.

[War Angel]

isn't the whole not murdering part all talked about when that guy goes up mount sinai?

War and murder are not the same thing. If you're fighting for survival (i.e, total war) it is not murder if you fight and kill the enemy. Murder is an un-provoked act of killing, while war is a whole big mess that involves killing and all kinds of other nasty $hit. It is all about where you draw the line... and terrorism means there's ALWAYS another way.

the bible in that way is not in it's orginal form.

That is true. The King James translation is an awful one, in all aspects... and so, by reading it, you are being misguided or simply confused by the ideas and stories portrayed in the bible. Want to get the real feel of a book? Read it in its original language, or at least one that is close (for example, an English translation of a French\German\Spanish book, or another Latin-based language).

[Destai]

You're a lot more likely to die crossing the road outside your house than by terorist bomb. I wouldnt be too bothered.

That chance depends heavily on where you live.

Good point, I meant the UK where Dreddz lives

[I Took the Red Pill]

What's happening is terrible, but these teenage boys that become terrorists are essentially being brainwashed.They go to schools to read the Koran ALL DAY. They are not supposed to think about what they are reading, just abide by it. And they become terrorists, with the belief that if they sacrifice themselves for the religion, they are promised 72 virgins in the afterlife.

[Cloud No.9]

the koran is not the problem. anyone could read the koran all day everyday and not be affected. it comes down to three things. interpertation, teaching and situation.

[Cuchulainn]

you have got to ask yourself why these people have been driven to this. we cannot just label them mad or bad. there is a reason why these people are doing this. and to end this first we have to understand them.

They worship a guy who's greatest claim to fame was getting kicked out of a city, gathering an army, and invading the place that didn't want him. War is written into their "holy" texts. What other excuse do you need?

PS: I apologize to any non-terrorist Islamic individuals who read this and are offended by it.

Yea that's almost as ridiculous as worshipping a guy who claimed to be God, got a local following, tried to convert everyone to worship him, failed, got caught & was executed..no wait..


And Cloud 9, you views on these terrorists differ greatly from your views on the IRA, as you just label as bastards. Surely even you must see the hypocracy in your words.

[War Angel]

but these teenage boys that become terrorists are essentially being brainwashed.

Hardly. It's simply what they believe in - and they believe it hard enough, to be willing to die for it. I am willing to die for some ideas, but those, in my eyes, are far more honourable, benign and beneficial to man-kind. It's a problem, when ideas some people are willing to die and kill for, are twisted and evil.

the koran is not the problem. anyone could read the koran all day everyday and not be affected. it comes down to three things. interpertation, teaching and situation.

I agree with you, for the most part. Yes, it has much to do with the interpretation... but, the Kor'an is much easier to avert to cruel and vicious interpretations, than most other holy books.

[Cloud No.9]

Cuchulainn. i hold the same values to the ira as any other force. i am in fact closer to their views than that of the protestants. i sympathise with the cause like i do in palestine and chechnya. it is the actions i have issues with.

"the Kor'an is much easier to avert to cruel and vicious interpretations, than most other holy books." i think any religion which promises eternal damnation and suffering to non-believers, adulterers, blasphemers, those who work on a sunday. a whole heap of fun are those religions.

[War Angel]

i think any religion which promises eternal damnation and suffering to non-believers, adulterers, blasphemers, those who work on a sunday.

I don't recall Christianity having a law calling for the killing of sinners. It just says "bummer, you're damned for an eternity in Hell", but that's not much of a threat to non-believers, now is it?

Islam takes action, that's the entire difference.

[bipper]

I agree here. Christianity was used a tool for several mideval kingdoms and churches (Still is misused for some). Do not let these misguided people drag down the whole religon.
Also, Like christianity has churches, Islam has many different followers, whom belive differently on issues. Most Christians are to take action as well, in the words of Jesus "Love thy enemy."

Bipper

[ThroneofDravaris]

edit: Thanks for sharing. If you don't have anything to contribute, don't.

[Cloud No.9]

actually god himself takes quite alot of murderous action in the bible. jericho, the whole noah thing, killing all the first borns in egypt, sodom, ghommarah. now that wasn't too nice. there is plenty of murderous action in the bible.

and if god did all these things then it must be all well and good to commit genocide. that is one lesson that can be taken from the bible.

[War Angel]

actually god himself takes quite alot of murderous action in the bible

Well, duh, he's God, creator of all existence, y'know? Besides, I have yet to see any evidence in modern day of some Godly act of genocide or massive destruction. No, natural disasters don't count. If God wants to take action, let him. Untill then, I wouldn't tolerate any such murderous actions from any human.

and if god did all these things then it must be all well and good to commit genocide. that is one lesson that can be taken from the bible.

Well, if you think God is human, or that humans are Gods, and that the two work on the same moral and existencial level... well, you didn't learn much from that violence-sex-humour filled book, now did you? God is God, he gets to do whatever the fook he wants, he is not human, and he obeys no rule imposed on men. Also, please note that all those murderous actions commited by God were in retaliation for unkind and unjust deeds commited by humans, first. You cannot analyse God's actions based on your moral standards, though - as he is not subject to them.

God isn't there for personal example - that's what prophets, kings and saints are for. God is the great technician of the world, he fixes things the way he sees fit. If he wants to press the 'reset' button, a la` The Flood, he gets to (not before he makes a back-up disc comprising of same old coot, his relatives and more than a few critters ).