Is it just a game?

[Endless]

Takkun's dad is aware he's part of an anime (4th wall breaking), as ep 6 shows. From there they can start breaking anime rules and introduce new elements such as their pseudo manga sequences and the overall apprent sillyness, since you've just been reminded that you're watching an anime.

[Skyblade]

Mercen-X, while you do have a valid point, you are bringing it out of context. The truth is that no matter how well the game is designed, it is still just a game. A single designer, or even a group of designers, can't match the sheer numbers of a fanbase in the millions. Things that they never noticed needed an explanation, whether because they thought they already had one, or that it was such an insignificant point in the game that it didn't need one, or any of a hundred different reasons will not go unnoticed by fans. Many games with subtle points that wind up being explained with "it's just a game" weren't created by designers who thought that. The nitpicky fans just notice things designers don't think of, and then they have no excuse to fall back on but honesty. It is just a game, and no matter how well it is planned, a handful of people won't notice everything that millions of gamers will. So cut them some slack.

(Oh, and Star Wars is not just a movie, it is a source of evil and stupidity in the universe that I have a personal vendetta against.)

[Mercen-X]

(Oh, and Star Wars is not just a movie, it is a source of evil and stupidity in the universe that I have a personal vendetta against.)

I believe Lucas considers it to be just a movie. Why else would he have ruined it by chopping up the storyline? Oh, I also plan on dominating the world with my homemade lightsaber . . . actually, I'll have my legion of scientists and alchemists make my lightsaber.

Things that they never noticed needed an explanation, whether because they thought they already had one, or that it was such an insignificant point in the game that it didn't need one, or any of a hundred different reasons will not go unnoticed by fans.

You really ought to give them more credit. More commonly, they are aware of the intelligence level of their major fanbase (Japan). They know their fans like to nitpick and overthink the story, so they do their best to make sure everything they include is as accurate as possible, because their fans like to theorize on what the creators were thinking.
They also know of our intelligence, which is why the games are not morbidly dumbed down when they reach America. How fun would a simple game be to an educated 20-year-old whose having an altogether boring day? None. When you're bored, you're brain needs activity and a simple game won't provide that. Which is why Final Fantasy (and others) includes so many real-world and mythological references, so the superior folk will have something worthwhile to figure out.

Many games with subtle points that wind up being explained with "it's just a game" weren't created by designers who thought that. The nitpicky fans just notice things designers don't think of, and then they have no excuse to fall back on but honesty. It is just a game, and no matter how well it is planned, a handful of people won't notice everything that millions of gamers will. So cut them some slack.

I suppose I'm a bit of a Natze, I don't like simple people who skip details and subtleties and dive for the cheap answers. It reminds me of Terra from Teen Titans when she wanted to smash the machine about to sink the Titans Tower. It's a fast and simple solution . . . that could make the situation worse. I like people who post their own theories on things and then mention that it is just a game. But when a bunch of scrubs start pouring in like insects with the single line "it's just a game" and offering no real opinion, it just makes me think their brains don't function correctly.

I guess my real quarrel to this whole thing has been FF7's limit system. People post the simple answer repeatedly, "it's just a game." However, when you include an in-game feature in the story, you have to give it some depth, some background. Cloud mentions near the beginning of the game that everyone has the potential to unleash limits. If he's mentioning it in his dialogue, how does it not play into the story. As I've mentioned before, plot and story are two separate things, they are in a symbiotic relationship though, in any good story, you will find a solid plot, however, a story is not a plot. The history of the world of FF7 decides the role of the limit break, not the plot of the game. I don't understand how people can be simple enough to discard this.

[Cloud No.9]

it is just a game, like it is just a film, like it is just a song, like it is just a picture.

creators do what they want on their chosen canvas.

[Skyblade]

(Oh, and Star Wars is not just a movie, it is a source of evil and stupidity in the universe that I have a personal vendetta against.)

I believe Lucas considers it to be just a movie. Why else would he have ruined it by chopping up the storyline? Oh, I also plan on dominating the world with my homemade lightsaber . . . actually, I'll have my legion of scientists and alchemists make my lightsaber.

Things that they never noticed needed an explanation, whether because they thought they already had one, or that it was such an insignificant point in the game that it didn't need one, or any of a hundred different reasons will not go unnoticed by fans.

You really ought to give them more credit. More commonly, they are aware of the intelligence level of their major fanbase (Japan). They know their fans like to nitpick and overthink the story, so they do their best to make sure everything they include is as accurate as possible, because their fans like to theorize on what the creators were thinking. They also know of our intelligence, which is why the games are not morbidly dumbed down when they reach America. How fun would a simple game be to an educated 20-year-old whose having an altogether boring day? None. When you're bored, you're brain needs activity and a simple game won't provide that. Which is why Final Fantasy (and others) includes so many real-world and mythological references, so the superior folk will have something worthwhile to figure out.

Many games with subtle points that wind up being explained with "it's just a game" weren't created by designers who thought that. The nitpicky fans just notice things designers don't think of, and then they have no excuse to fall back on but honesty. It is just a game, and no matter how well it is planned, a handful of people won't notice everything that millions of gamers will. So cut them some slack.

I suppose I'm a bit of a Natze, I don't like simple people who skip details and subtleties and dive for the cheap answers. It reminds me of Terra from Teen Titans when she wanted to smash the machine about to sink the Titans Tower. It's a fast and simple solution . . . that could make the situation worse. I like people who post their own theories on things and then mention that it is just a game. But when a bunch of scrubs start pouring in like insects with the single line "it's just a game" and offering no real opinion, it just makes me think their brains don't function correctly.

I guess my real quarrel to this whole thing has been FF7's limit system. People post the simple answer repeatedly, "it's just a game." However, when you include an in-game feature in the story, you have to give it some depth, some background. Cloud mentions near the beginning of the game that everyone has the potential to unleash limits. If he's mentioning it in his dialogue, how does it not play into the story. As I've mentioned before, plot and story are two separate things, they are in a symbiotic relationship though, in any good story, you will find a solid plot, however, a story is not a plot. The history of the world of FF7 decides the role of the limit break, not the plot of the game. I don't understand how people can be simple enough to discard this.

I'm giving them plenty of credit. I just don't think that a few people, even if they are super geniuses, will consider everything that a million+ person fanbase will, no matter how long they spend on the game. Games that are years in design will be nitpicked for decades by fans. (And, unless one of the game designers was on crack I don't think there's a chance in hell a billion of them could've planned Future Esthar's theories.)

Of course, I hate people jumping to such conclusions when there are logical ways to work things out too, but sometimes, you must realize that "it's just a game" is the answer. That doesn't mean that it's not fun to come up with alternative theories, but do you really think that these game designers come up with theories that can only be figured out by one person staring at a game for 20 years?

As to the Limit Break thing, while I hold my own views on the matter, I am not yet sure enough of my theories to present them, so you're on your own.

[DJZen]

Uhhh.... Video games don't have to make sense. Mario touches a magic mushroom and he gets taller. He touches a flower and suddenly he can shoot fire now. He touches a "starman" and he's invincible for 10 seconds. But if the turtle walks into him, he's dead.

Games don't have to make ANY sense to be awesome. Heck, just look at Earthworm Jim.

I can just see what fans would demand if Super Mario Bros. 3, one of the finest games EVER made, came out today.

"these are the magical leaves of the mushroom kingdom! the lifestream gives them the powers of wind, embodied in the ancient raccoon spirit. When you touch a leaf, the raccoon spirit will come down in a 5 minute CG sequence and give you his likeness. When you have his likeness, you can talk to the spirits of the wind, but only when you can run fast enough to catch up to them! If you ask them nicely, they will lift your body up to the sky! And then you can kill hookers with the car you stole from the old woman, who you also ran over. Then you can steal drugs from the cop and use them, and you can even give them to the wind spirits to watch princess peach flash her naughties at you!"

Yeah... That sounds... *VOMITS*

[bipper]

I think what x is saying is that when people work hard to make a story credible then destoy it with stupid plot holes because its "just a game" Need a royal butt kicking.

I agree.

It's like the little nerdy kid trying hard to be big and tuff in front of the jocks so they don't beat him up or something. Workin g outside of your element, destroys credability.

Certain distains go for certain stories (not genres), while others should be handled carfully. Detailed storyies, often found in rpgs, should be well thought. I have seen a lot of plotholes get left unanswered, and a lot of bs get thrown into a lot of rpgs. When they try to be different, and out of element, they loose credability as a series.

So If they look at it as being "just a game" that is more than likely how it will be taken by the public. If they put a lot of extra work into it, then there is the chance it would be a godsend game. A great game etc.

What I really hate/love about plot holes and 'story glitches' arethe way they can be disected. Look at the Matrix. I thought the first was just great writing with a lot of symbolism, but it appears that the symbolosm was mainly inturpeted by the viewing audience. The writers then got a big head, and instead of writing and artistic medium, they wrote two more ass hat movies, and animation complimentry, a mmorpg, and a video game. Let alone with a million other articles.


Bipper

[DJZen]

Yeah, I hate when they add things to games that don't make sense like "magic". It SOOOO makes loopholes. :rolleyes2

[Mercen-X]

OMG Bipper, I love you, quite possibly in a very gay way.

OMG DJZen, you're totally missing the point. RPGs explain their magic systems, they explain why monsters exist or that they merely have existed, they explain why the ultimate villain of the story is the ultimate villain, some (not many, but some) even go as far as to explain why the characters always where the same clothes no matter where they go.

Mario is a game about a plumber who stumbles upon an alternate world with rampaging turtles and a kidnapped princess. Besides the basic premise, nothing is explained . . . AND THAT IS WHY IT IS PERFECT! NOTHING is explained. The second something like mario getting powers from a leaf is explained then everything else needs explaining.

See what I mean? When you offer no explanation for anything, then it is indeed "just a game." But when you start explaining things, you're audience starts to form questions. Your explanations have to answer those questions.

Mario didn't explain itself to anybody, therefore it set no rules or guidelines for what could or couldn't happen in the story. Sure, you learn that walking into fireballs, turtles, goombas, spikes, missiles, and off of cliffs is not a good thing. But gameplay rules are entirely different from story rules.

It's nonsense to ask why numbers pop out of your enemies when you attack them in an RPG because no character in the game addresses the issue. However, Limit Breaks are mentioned in FF7. So then there's the question as to how the limits exist and why the characters know about them. When you say, "it's just a game" at this point, you're disregarding the entire premise of the story.
You see, the "it's just a game" people are fool enough to believe that a story is only what occurs in the pages you read of this book, or the scenes that you watch in that film, or the scenes you play in that game. There's much more to it than that. Despite not wanting to believe it, you can't ignore the ongoing backstory, the history of a world being brought to life in your imagination.
A story is not just the prologue to the epilogue. 'Cause that prologue entails the history of that world or the premise of this story. The history of a world, that world, any world . . . is a story in itself and cannot be overlooked. So then, why are the characters of FF7 allowed to use Limit Breaks, how do they know of them, how do they know that an item can unlock their most powerful techniques and why can't any other character in the game use these limit skills?

And you sooo don't know the difference between a loophole and a plothole. :rolleyes2

[bipper]

Default
Yeah, I hate when they add things to games that don't make sense like "magic". It SOOOO makes loopholes.

Basically, if your gonna make a soiid game; don;t go half ass. If you want your game to be taken seriously when other's take it serious, then put your heart and soul into it. Mario was a farse, and a great one at that. Disecting mario and other games of the sort are like trying to compare "Montey Python and the Holy Grail" to the real life Authorian legends. They are ment to be fun and just a game.

OMG Bipper, I love you, quite possibly in a very gay way.

glad I finally got the point myself lol
Bipper

[Skyblade]

Default
Yeah, I hate when they add things to games that don't make sense like "magic". It SOOOO makes loopholes.

Basically, if your gonna make a soiid game; don;t go half ass. If you want your game to be taken seriously when other's take it serious, then put your heart and soul into it. Mario was a farse, and a great one at that. Disecting mario and other games of the sort are like trying to compare "Montey Python and the Holy Grail" to the real life Authorian legends. They are ment to be fun and just a game.

OMG Bipper, I love you, quite possibly in a very gay way.

glad I finally got the point myself lol
Bipper

Actually, what I like about this is that Monty Python and the Holy Grail gets the Arthurian legends more correct than 90% of current movies about the subject. Excalibur was given to Arthur by the Lady of the Lake, not pulled from the stone.

[bipper]

Sky, now you are just being too damn clever shhh lol

I realize that but, it doesn't hut my point too much.. i hope


Bipper