The U.S. Government

[lordblazer]

America is at the threshold. Times are changing. You're right to recognize that it is not only the president who makes the entire system bad. Either we strive to go back to the way things were, either we make America the bastion of liberty and justice for all, or America won't be a superpower by the time I am gone.

America has only been a super power for about...... whats 1945 minus 2005 ?

I'm dead serious man lol I don't have a calculator

Compared to the Romans. America hasn't been a super power for htat long. Compared to British america still hasn't been an super power that long. Hopefully China becomes a Super power and there cna be a nice rivalry.

[Madame Adequate]

America has only been a super power for about...... whats 1945 minus 2005 ?

I'm dead serious man lol I don't have a calculator

Compared to the Romans. America hasn't been a super power for htat long. Compared to British america still hasn't been an super power that long. Hopefully China becomes a Super power and there cna be a nice rivalry.

Yes, Cold Wars are fun for all the family.

udsana: Your ideas that isolationism is a good policy, frankly, scare me. Certainly, have a policy of staying out of other nation's businesses, but preventing immigration and the movement of people is morally wrong and, moreover, makes it astoundingly easier for anyone with the wrong ideas about power to stay in power.

[Cuchulainn]

And their (not-so) clandestine nuclear weapons program, not to mention lying through their teeth to the U.N., had nothing to do with this?

It's the fact that they ARE isolationist & secretive that makes their Nuclear programmes suspect. USA, France, Great Britain, India etc etc have nuclear weapons programmes. The level of mistrust about those countries (bar India, which is more due to fear of their relations with Pakistan) is minimal.

And I think Switzerland is a great example of what an isolationist country should be like. Thailand, too, to a lesser degree. Come, visit, meet the locals, spend your money, and GO HOME!!! But in a polite way. They don't send their officials to pester other countries. They just hand out tour guides and sit back and obey only the international laws they feel like.

Switzerland are not isolationist. They keep their own finances to themselves, but also other nations finances (not to mention criminals). Don't confuse Economic Individualism with Isolationist. Their economy relies HEAVILY on other nations for tourism & banking, that isn't isolationism.

All of Switzerland's population is a military resource. Every adult male has spent time serving their armed forces. They could shred to pieces an invasion from land or air without any advance warning. They have surface-to-target missile bases to a concentration that is unrivalled anywhere else in the world. Their border is virtually impregnable... you'd take lighter losses invading America after giving them a 2-week warning and the exact location of your attack.

People said this about Czechoslovakia prior to 1938 yet it was peeled away and stripped without a shot fired. Switzerland hasn't been involved in a war pretty muc since it's independence. This will show heavily if something does happen. Conscripts don't make good soldiers, never have, never will.

[udsuna]

I said isolationism, not xenophobia. Learn the difference, then get back to me. I don't feel like educating you on the subject if you're going to say stuff about me scaring you. (If you want to take cheap shots without using educated discussion, just do it the obvious way and call me stupid or something. At least blatent insults show some backbone.)

And, no, America hasn't been a super-power too long. HOWEVER, if you measure in terms of social and technological change, we've been a super-power for a stunning era. Rome only saw one new religion and a mild amount of scientific advancement. Great Britain saw technology that opened up a new frontier, and the developement of a few new sub-groups of a religion.

As for America.... we've seen submarine tech, space travel, automatic and nuclear weapons, and the internet. Gotta love the internet. Half a dozen new religions, social and cultural evolution so sweeping that it's barely unrecognizable within a couple decades. We made our splash, it's time to sit back and ride the wave.

[Cuchulainn]

I never insulted you once?

[udsuna]

I never insulted you once?

Read the specifics on what I considered insulting. You'd realize they were MILF's words, not yours. I thought you were more perceptive than that

EDIT: Oh, and Switzerland's men aren't "conscripts"- they're loyalists. True, they require military service within a certain age group for men. But their standing military is all voluntary. As for the others, they're trained, not active, and I'm sure they'd hop to help if the country were invaded.

[Cuchulainn]

I never insulted you once?

Read the specifics on what I considered insulting. You'd realize they were MILF's words, not yours. I thought you were more perceptive than that

I never seen his post & the last post I seen was yours. As I figured you weren't replying to yourself I got confused. No harm done.

[udsuna]

No, you're an intelligent and skilled debator. Not to mention educated and civil... which is unfortunately rare. Isolationist only defines itself as a political or resources situation. In other words: all troups on American ground (except when retaliating to an outside attack), no political involvement outside the borders, severe (if not necessarily crippling) taxation on incoming trade goods.

The united states has an advantage in isolationism... we CAN sustain our own consumption, without going to outside sources. There's nothing that the outside world can sell (besides names, labels and specific unique items) that we cannot produce ourselves. We can make wine... actually, I can make wine in my basement. We can make petro fuels. We can make vehicles. Hell, most vehicles made in other countries are made out of metals that were refined in the USA, sold and shipped out, shaped and assembled outside, and sold back for a profit. We're the continent with the most uranium deposits, too, so we can supply our reactors with no difficulty. Although some people might be upset by the sudden rarity of silk. Until the silkworms we have in the states are bred to satisfactory numbers. (Hey, we get to keep the beneficial oriental bugs, because we can't get rid of the harmful ones).

Of course, we'd probably let the Canadians stick around. I like canada, they're nice to us. The only country in the world that aided us after the 9/11 attacks. No other country in the world, regardless of who they were or what our relationship, even made the offer. The sent letters to the effect of: "dude, saw what happened, hope you're alright". And most of them had the nerve to complain when we stopped giving as much financial assistance to them.

[ZeZipster]

No, you're an intelligent and skilled debator. Not to mention educated and civil... which is unfortunately rare. Isolationist only defines itself as a political or resources situation. In other words: all troups on American ground (except when retaliating to an outside attack), no political involvement outside the borders, severe (if not necessarily crippling) taxation on incoming trade goods.

The united states has an advantage in isolationism... we CAN sustain our own consumption, without going to outside sources. There's nothing that the outside world can sell (besides names, labels and specific unique items) that we cannot produce ourselves. We can make wine... actually, I can make wine in my basement. We can make petro fuels. We can make vehicles. Hell, most vehicles made in other countries are made out of metals that were refined in the USA, sold and shipped out, shaped and assembled outside, and sold back for a profit. We're the continent with the most uranium deposits, too, so we can supply our reactors with no difficulty. Although some people might be upset by the sudden rarity of silk. Until the silkworms we have in the states are bred to satisfactory numbers. (Hey, we get to keep the beneficial oriental bugs, because we can't get rid of the harmful ones).

Of course, we'd probably let the Canadians stick around. I like canada, they're nice to us. The only country in the world that aided us after the 9/11 attacks. No other country in the world, regardless of who they were or what our relationship, even made the offer. The sent letters to the effect of: "dude, saw what happened, hope you're alright". And most of them had the nerve to complain when we stopped giving as much financial assistance to them.

Okay, but why would we go back to isolationism again?

[udsuna]

Because our current foreign policy is possibly the worst in all history. We'd be better off, from a humanitarian standpoint, to take the Roman theory of "burn away the native culture, and crush them under our heals until they relent and submit entirely". At least then, there's only a brief period of oppression and death.

Everything the United States tries to fix turns into a hellish warzone that lasts for decades at the least. Most of the crap we're dealing with today was caused by our mistakes back during the World Wars. For the sake of ourselves and everyone else, we should get the hell out of everywhere and stick to ourselves.

[Lionx]

Somehow i feel a warzone on other people's soil is what they want, they remain #1 because they arent facing war in their home front and their factories produce more stuff to boost economy. I could be wrong but i dont feel i am completely off the mark when they want to be #1 by fighting wars or demonizing other countries that dont agree with them.

[bipper]

I must say that closng up will solve nothing. What we are doing is working imo. North Korea has infact decided to shutdown its nuclear program (power and missles) if they can set up an agreement to get power and security from other countries. This is a H-U-G-E step forward. While some may argue that is our teroristic war habbits, and N. Korea simply backing down, I would have to disagree, as in the past, N. Korea has not been known just to back down.

Obviously, we are not going to be able to make the world a better place overnight. It will take some time, and some trys, but why would we just give up?

Also, this rock we live on has become a lot smaller. N. Korea, China have gotten (metephorically) a lot closer in respects to technology. We have to gain a common thread with our neighbors to prevent sudden hostility. One would be less likly to wage war with a friend, or someone that they are interdependant on, than a neighbor.

Also if you look at some of our foreign policies, you will notice that we do infact help a lot of other countries by bringing them JOBS, security, and simply by being there (aid wise). I know we have work to do, but we will get there.

the US just isolating itself, will leave a top spot open as far as the world power goes; I don't think I have to explain how that would/could go.

Bipper

[Rusty]

I think Bush is doing a fine job and is a good President. I'm not going to go in detail why and get into debate going on here, but that's my opinion.

[bipper]

As far as bush and adminstrative problems go, I think he is begining to lack. I think it has more to do with the drop in his approvial ratings, and probally an overall loss in confidence. Fighting with his own party, and the democrats at the house and senate levels do not help much either.

Bipper

[udsuna]

Yeah... North Korea has made that agreement before, several times, and broke it every time. They didn't back down, we gave in to their new blackmail.