Retirement funding

[Madame Adequate]

No Cloud, some people can commit things to memory better than others.

And what I'm saying is essentially yes, that the most able deserve more than the least able. Why shouldn't a doctor be better rewarded for his services than a person who works as Tescos? Why shouldn't a man working on robotics be paid more than a man who manufactures televisions? That's called a meritocracy, and it's the only fair system Humanity could possibly implement given current technology. And yes, I have said already, the system is somewhat skewed. But people get paid what society is willing to pay them. Good for Milla Jovovich, Elvis Presley, and Bobby Charlton then, I say.

[Cloud No.9]

because the doctor will need a man to sell him goods as much as he needs a doctor.

and any system which penalises for disability seems very wrong. some people just aren't intelligent or just aren't good at exams. this does not mean society should punish them.

but we are off topic about pensions again.

[Teek]

But "society" doesn't punish them; "society" doesn't do anything; "society" doesn't exist. It's a rule of reality that there will be strong and there will be weak. Free societies don't make the strong stronger or the weak weaker. It just doesn't do anything. It gives people what they deserve. That's justice.

If I am a genius, I should be paid accordingly. How is that "wrong"?

[DarkLadyNyara]

and any system which penalises for disability seems very wrong. some people just aren't intelligent or just aren't good at exams. this does not mean society should punish them.

No one said society should punish them. To put it another way, why give someone something they can't or won't use?

[Cloud No.9]

"It gives people what they deserve." this does not mean the able are more desrving than the disabled.

[Madame Adequate]

because the doctor will need a man to sell him goods as much as he needs a doctor.

If I go to Wal*Mart or Tesco or wherever and get a job I will be trained for 90% of the store within a half-hour orientation session. It requires minimal thought, and in most cases action, on my part. If I go to university I will be trained for a specialised area of medicine within 7 years of tutoring. It requires immense expertise and knowledge to even diagnose things, nevermind take action for them, on my part.

Tell me how those are equitable vocations and I will support the cause to ensure they are paid the same.

[DarkLadyNyara]

If I go to Wal*Mart or Tesco or wherever and get a job I will be trained for 90% of the store within a half-hour orientation session. It requires minimal thought, and in most cases action, on my part. If I go to university I will be trained for a specialised area of medicine within 7 years of tutoring. It requires immense expertise and knowledge to even diagnose things, nevermind take action for them, on my part.

More to the point, you can live without going to Wal*Mart.

[Cloud No.9]

but the problem is as a human being we deserve equality as a base. room to excel but a basic equality. so i'm gonna take this back to pensions here. it's a base. yes you can save your own. but that equal base must be provided.

[Madame Adequate]

but the problem is as a human being we deserve equality as a base. room to excel but a basic equality. so i'm gonna take this back to pensions here. it's a base. yes you can save your own. but that equal base must be provided.

At the start of life, I can agree with that idea. Though the implementation is very shoddy and needs a lot of thought and revision. At the end of life? After someone's had five decades to see to their financial security? That's their own lookout. Old people aren't created old, they were young once, and when they were young they had the responsibility to provide for their futures.

[Teek]

Exactly. That's why free primary and secondary education, while technically wrong, is hard to fight - it gives people the chance. Are you telling me that everyone in your high school was smart and willing to move but were held back? As I recall, very few kids cared about moving ahead. In fact, most didn't care about moving, period. They get what they deserve naturally (their lives won't be very fulfilling when they aren't trying, otherwise) and a government that steps out of it ensures that reality is the final arbiter.

That I should work hard to create what I want to create, make millions in my career, be mocked for it because somehow by my honest effort I created money that must have been stolen or ripped from the hands of the proletarian or something, and then given to these idiots from high school, now the elderly, when I'm an elder because they didn't spend their money productively? How is that even remotely justice?

[Cloud No.9]

why is free education wrong?

and the pension system in britain has failed and many pensioners have nothing else. and what are we to let them do? starve?

everyone needs a safety net.

[Madame Adequate]

and the pension system in britain has failed and many pensioners have nothing else. and what are we to let them do? starve?

See, the inevitable failure of socialism is coming about in Britain. Now people who should have provided for themselves, but didn't because they didn't believe they were going to have to (Which is fair enough, if ill-advised.), are getting screwed over. Our solution? Take more money from those in work today, meaning they in turn have a harder time saving up for their own retirement.

Everyone needs a safety net? I agree. Everyone needs to provide themselves with a safety net.

[Cloud No.9]

by the failing system in britain i wa not talking about the welfare system. it is not the socialist system that has failed. it has been pension scheme companies going broke. and pensions from work places that have went bankrupt. the government pension scheme is still running.

and that is what i meant by what they only had left.

these are people that had saved and thought ahead. alot worse for it now as well.

[ShunNakamura]

I got no problem wiht a pension system if it only provides enough for a bare minimum of existance. You can affored cheap shelter and cheap meals and leave, if not heartily.

People are stupid. That isn't arguable, even the most intellegent are stupid in a sense. So I have no problem with the 'intellegent' comming up with a minimilistic safety net for the stupid. Though the best way to do it is just to do the same thing they do with auto-insurance(though I loath how that is made) where you require it to be done. Thus just have it figured in with taxes. Government automatically takes some money and drops it UNTOUCHED into an account in that persons name. People are dumb... you sometimes have to do things for them.

Thus I conclude it isn't that socialistic stuff is wrong... rather it is implemented wrong(in some cases) and in others the government screws it up in other ways. Untouched means you do not take any out of it.