Quote Originally Posted by Sephiroth1999AD
Right, and we also see Mako inside the chambers of monsters in Nibelheim's reactor and in the Northern Crater's Reunion part, and that was blue.
Spirit Energy seen at the Northern Crater is always green to the best of my memory, as it is every other time it's shown throughout the game with the exception of the glow we see coming out of those chambers in the Mt. Nibel Reactor. A dozen cases stacked against one (including when we can see a close-up of Cloud's eyes with a green glow in them) coupled with the fact that Lifestream's obviously green suggests Mako is also green.


It's not said anywhere in FFVII that Spirit Energy lets you use limit breaks.
Jesus Christ, it's called "putting two and two together." When we have worlds operating with the same physics, it's safe to assume that the same things happening under the same circumstances are the same things.


The surge of Spirit Energy or the aura causing limit breaks are nowhere stated in FFVII or AC, either.
I didn't say it causes it. Damn, man. I said it represents it. As in, "We know that a Limit Break's coming because of this."


As for the Lucky Sevens, I don't recall the game saying "Limit Break!" when your party members do the 64*7777 strike.
It appears in a similar manner.


...which makes it sound like - sorry if I'm getting your point wrong - since anyone can trance in FFIX, you think everyone can use limit breaks in FFVII. That kind of logic from you is flawed, IMHO. After that, I was saying how very few people in FFVII are known to use limit breaks, and may I add that it's not said in FFVII that using limit breaks is a trait everyone has. And even if some people in FFIX don't trance during certain events, as you said, how does that defeat my point of not everyone being able to use limit breaks in FFVII? You're not making any sense here. Really.
What gift from the Planet allows people not only to live in IX, but to use Trance, a powerful rise in their strength during desperate situations? Spirit Energy. Though a very small percentage of the characters present ever use this, it's stated that anybody can.

In Final Fantasy VII, what is everyone gifted with by the Planet at birth? Spirit Energy. Though a very small percentage of the characters ever present this, the fact that it's as simlar to Trance -- complete with appearing during desperate situations in Last Order and Advent Children (note Cloud's eyes glowing the colour of Spirit Energy after he throws Sephiroth in Last Order) -- as a tangerine is to an orange, it's safe to assume that both are a citrus fruit.

Especially when the guy who conceived the plots and world mechanics if both is the same guy, has stated that he loves the concept, and has said he used the same approach with both games.


Your FFIX quotes don't say Spirit Energy causes trance, especially when Spirit Energy is a word never even mentioned in FFIX. You're assuming "the power of souls" mean Spirit Energy, which isn't stated anywhere, either.
...

Dude. Spirit Energy is souls. Jesus Christ! That's something that is outright stated, even in Final Fantasy VII:

Bugenhagen
"Well, let's get to the subject."
"Eventually... all humans die. What happens to them after they
die?"
"The body decomposes, and returns to the Planet. That much
everyone knows. What about their consciousness, their hearts and their
souls?"
"The soul too returns to the Planet."
"And not only those of humans, but everything on this Planet. In
fact, all living things in the universe, are the same."

Bugenhagen
"The spirits that return to the Planet, merge with one another
and roam the Planet."
"They roam, converge, and divide, becoming a swell, called the
'Lifestream'."
"Lifestream.... In other words, a path of energy of the souls
roaming the Planet."

Bugenhagen
"'Spirit Energy' is a word that you should never forget."
"A new life... children are blessed with Spirit energy and are
brought into the world."
"Then, the time comes when they die and once again return to the Planet..."
"Of course there are exceptions, but this is the way of the
world."
Souls and spirits are the same thing, man.

By the way, note that Bugenhagen says that everything in the universe is the same. All Planets work like this.


Planets having a cycle of souls doesn't say anything about Spirit Energy, either.
...Yes, it does. It's a cycle of Spirit Energy. Souls are Spirit Energy. This couldn't be more obvious. Bugenhagen even uses the terms interchangably.


As for the Bugenhagen comment, which I also quoted, it only states that Spirit Energy lets the people and planets of FFVII live and stay alive. It's not said to have anything to do with giving people superior strength or limit breaks.
It is, however, said that it allows Trance... which is obviously the same thing as a Limit Break.


As for what Hironobu Sakaguchi said, why don't you provide me a reliable link to an official statement from him? I don't consider your website a reliable and official source of information...
If you've ever actually looked at the site, you'd know I use quotes constantly. Thus, if you get it from a magazine or you get it there, you're getting the same damn thing. Damn.

Anyway, in an interview in issue 47 (August 2001) of the Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine, Sakaguchi said this about The Spirits Within movie:

"The themes of the movie deal with the concept of life and death and the human spirit, which you'll also find in Final Fantasy VII and IX."


Then referring to what was said about Sakaguchi in the May 2003 issue of EDGE magazine, we can see that he -- supporting what Bugenhagen said -- applied these concepts to all Planets:

Kitase: "Sakaguchi had a great vision of the force behind the universe. He wanted to explore the idea that planets and people share the same basic energy and so are, in some way, intrinsically linked. He developed this philosophy from drawing upon other cultures that stated when a planet disappears an invisible energy is released into space. This energy goes to some place and concentrates to give life again when certain conditions are met. The same energy drives people. So no matter who or what this energy comes from, it will concentrate all together to give life to something or someone again."


One only has to look at IX or The Spirits Within to see this concept being applied over and over. Further, Nojima now incorporates it into what he writes and used it in Final Fantasy X and X-2. The concepts apply to all Final Fantasy worlds. What's true for the Earth in The Spirits Within is true of both Gaias, and what is true of either Gaia is true of the Earth and the other Gaia.

Refer to the upcoming post for more on this.


As for that Linkage, that page is giving me nothing but an error message.
Because GeoCities sucks.

I'll make another post after this one with what that was supposed to link to.


First, where is it said in the game that Mako is condensed Lifestream?
Right here:

Bugenhagen
"......These are the basics of the Study of Planet Life."

Cloud
"If the Spirit energy is lost, our Planet is destroyed..."

Bugenhagen
"Ho Ho Hoooo. Spirit energy is efficient BECAUSE it exists within
nature."
"When Spirit energy is forcefully extracted, and manufactured, it
can't accomplish its true purpose."

Cloud
"You're talking about Mako energy, right?"

Bugenhagen
"Everyday Mako reactors suck up Spirit energy, diminishing it."
"Spirit energy gets compressed in the reactors and processed into Mako energy. All living things are being used up and thrown away."
"In other words, Mako energy will only destroy the Planet..."

Second, you're assuming Spirit Energy is the same as Lifestream, which isn't exactly stated in the game, either.
Yes, it is. Spirit Energy is what the Lifestream is composed of. It's a massive swell of the Planet's Spirit Energy:

Bugenhagen
"The spirits that return to the Planet, merge with one another
and roam the Planet."
"They roam, converge, and divide, becoming a swell, called the
'Lifestream'."
"Lifestream.... In other words, a path of energy of the souls
roaming the Planet."
Sephiroth
"You stupid fools. You have never even thought about it."
"All the spirit energy of this Planet. All its wisdom...
knowledge..."
"I will meld with it all. I will become one with it... It will
become one with me."

...

Aerith
"How do you intend to become one with the Planet?"

Sephiroth
"It's simple."
"Once the Planet is hurt, it gathers Spirit Energy to heal the
injury."

Sephiroth
"The amount of energy gathered depends on the size of the
injury."

Sephiroth
"...What would happen if there was an injury that threatened the
very life of the Planet?"
"Think how much energy would be gathered!"

Sephiroth
"Ha ha ha. And at the center of that injury, will be me."
"All that boundless energy will be mine."

Sephiroth
"By merging with all the energy of the Planet, I will become a
new life forn, a new existence."
"Melding with the Planet... I will cease to exist as I am now."
"Only to be reborn as a 'God' to rule over every soul."

Third, I've said this before, but it's not said that Spirit Energy allows the use of Limit breaks. You're linking up different things from FFVII and claiming they're the same even though the game has no mention about that.
You have to go out of your way to assume that the same mechanics are not in play.


As I said, Spirit Energy and Mako aren't said to be the same thing, which is why I can't see the reasoning in this comment of yours.
Again, yes, they are. Lifestream is Mako and Materia, as well. Mako can be artifically produced, but it is also something that occurs naturally, as well. Spirit Energy naturally leaks up through the Planet to its surface, such as with the Mako Spring in Mt. Nibel. When it is processed through Reactors or simply leaks to the surface, it condenses into a liquid-like substance. Further, once Mako crystalizes, it becomes a sphere of solid Spirit Energy which is known as "Materia."


Would they? It's not stated in FFIX that they even had such properties.
It's otherwise made clear that Planets are all the same and function the same.


Besides, Terra was trying to absorb Gaia. Garland and Kuja said Gaia was doomed. And yet Gaia didn't display any of its powers to defend itself. Maybe it didn't have such powers at all?
There's a difference between a large rock smacking into a Planet and a giant destructo Tree slowly subverting its Cycle of Souls over the course of 1000 years. No direct assault was being made against the Planet. What was happening is that its Spirit Energy was being blocked. When living things died and their Spirit Energy headed back toward the centre of the Planet, it was being blocked by the Iifa Tree, weakening the Planet over time. Eventually, this would make it weak enough for Terra to assimilate its Lifestream, the same as the Phantom homeworld's Lifestream attempted to assimilate the Earth's in The Spirits Within.


Because you're claiming it's the same thing, and in your post, you're using FFIX's trance system to explain things about FFVII that aren't even mentioned in the game. So you are using non-FFVII properties to support your statements about FFVII.
No. I wasn't using it in a manner to explain anything. You're ignoring sentence structure. I used it in the same way that one might say "a gun/firing arm emits projectiles." The sentence would have functioned the same as "Limit Breaks are...."


From what it seems, you took notice of all the possible flaws I said, then you twisted them into something I didn't say and used that against me. Thank you.
I haven't cited you saying anything you didn't say. I pointed out the weakness in the argument of what you did say.


There, you're saying your opinions are facts and others' are flawed.
Yes, because I've got a plethora of evidence backing the notion, including Sakaguchi's concept -- as well as Final Fantasy VII's statement -- that all Planets function the same.