Question

[Raistlin]

The difference between EoEO and EotW lies in specificity. This is also the difference between EotW and GC. EotW is VERY SPECIFIC in it's subject matter. A certain type of thread goes there. A specific type of thread. There's no reason for us to let a bunch of those types of threads stay in GC when you have one half serious discussion and one half LOLZ OLZ LOLZ. That's not fair to the thread starter, that's not fair to those who partake in serious discussion, and that's not fair to staff for having to keep track of them when they can just as easily be put in their proper place.

"Eyes on the World" is specific? There are a ton of threads which fit into that. Including, arguably, such threads like Talk Like a Pirate Day.

Posts like "LOL LOLZ" aren't even allowed in GC. Punish the spammers, then, not the thread types. As I said, history, religion, and other current-events threads would be allowed in GC...why just exclude political threads? There's no logical reason outside Staff just doesn't like political threads, which isn't much of a valid reason.

[Shlup]

I think the fact that political threads are disliked by a large percentage of EoFF members, as well as I think 100% of the staff, is a perfectly valid reason to keep the specifically confined. This is a message board. This isn't the senate. This is something done to keep people happy, and if the only reasons to not do this are for the sake of some misguided sense of consistancy then that's not much of a reason at all. They are consistant. They consistantly keep political threads away from the majority, which does not like them.

[Sasquatch]

How specific do the forums need to be, though? If we can't post political threads anywhere but EoTW, doesn't that mean we can't post current events, or personal threads, anywhere but EoEO? Then what's the use of GC?

By the way. Go Bears!

[fire_of_avalon]

Hi Raistlin. I'm a staff member, and I like political threads. I read a lot of threads in EotW. Sometimes, I read more in there than I do in GC.

I explained why I closed the threads. I also explained that members who made those threads in GC can remake them in EotW if they want to.

I will repeat myself. And I will do it once. Re-read the threads in GC that were closed. Those threads follow the exact same pattern and posting style of a "serious discussion" thread in EotW, with the exception of certain GC-esque posts. If it had been different, the threads would have been left alone.

I really don't see what the problem is. World event type threads which merit serious discussion belong in EotW. Both of those threads meritted serious discussion, but were far too long and far too full of spam and partial flaming to move to EotW without going through and deleting things, post by post. I'm not going to do that, because it's a waste of my time.

[Sasquatch]

So wait...you're saying a thread has to be full of spam to be in GC? Threads can be "too serious" to be in General?

[Raistlin]

I think the fact that political threads are disliked by a large percentage of EoFF members, as well as I think 100% of the staff, is a perfectly valid reason to keep the specifically confined.

No, that's backwards. It's not that people dislike politics - people dislike how people act while discussing politics. So instead of punishing political threads in general, punish the people acting like idiots in political threads.
The same logic was behind my argument behind keeping Feedback during the whole April Fools' joke - if people spam Feedback, you punish the spammers instead of closing Feedback.

You're not addressing the real issue here by secluding political discussion. You're merely minimizing the flaming/spamming/whatever, instead of trying to do away with it entirely.

EDIT: foa, that still doesn't make sense, since personal/philosophical/intellectual threads can either go in EoEO or GC. And history/current events/religion/cultural threads can either go in EotW or GC. But political threads are arbitrarily excluded. And Sasquatch also has a valid point.

[Shlup]

You're proposing solutions that require way more time and effort than the staff should be required to invest.

[Del Murder]

Yeah, Shlup has it. It's much more time efficient to just get rid of the topics that cause the problem than all the people involved. Also, for some strange reason most of the people who cause trouble in political topics are much more well behaved in the rest of the forum. Archie is working on a super-version of the kishi AI that should be able to watch every post and every thread.

[Dr Unne]

[qq=Raist]Well, the same theory is behind both forums: having a place where people can more seriously discuss certain issues.[/qq]

I think this is a faulty assumption. EoEO is for serious discussion. EotW is to keep the crap from stinking up the rest of the MB. EotW was in fact specifically created to keep politcal bickering out of EoEO and GC because it was annoying everyone.

The "no spam no flaming" policies for the two forums are only similar in appearance. The reason for the policy for EoEO is to provide a place for serious discussion. The purpose of the policy for EotW is a to be lid put over the garbage can to keep the smell out of the rest of the house. Or, if you like, an exercise yard where miscreants can wear themselves out so that they're docile and easier to handle once they re-enter the civilized world. No offense meant (much); I have been one of those miscreants from time to time.

[/non-staff opinion]

[Shlup]

Well that pretty much sums that up. G'job, cracka.

[Sasquatch]

You're proposing solutions that require way more time and effort than the staff should be required to invest.

Wow. Here I go thinking this is sarcasm, and Del completely agrees with it. How dare we ask the staff to put forth effort to moderate this forum!

[Madonna]

Raist, Raist. UYFB, and the mods will sort out the ones who don't. Geez.

[Raistlin]

You're proposing solutions that require way more time and effort than the staff should be required to invest.

...No it doesn't. It just requires reading the threads that they profess to read anyway.

You're still going about things backwards - you should be addressing WHY political threads suck so much, instead of trying to hide them in a corner.

But anyway, this has stopped being entertaining, as I'm tired. You probably figured out that I don't give a damn about this, but I did (and do) think that this is a glaring contradiction (where every other EotW-appropriate thread outside politics would be allowed in GC), which is just sweeping all the bad things into a closet instead of fixing them. If people were punished (instead of just EoEO/EotW temp-banned) for flaming/spamming, then there would be less flaming and spamming.

[Azure Chrysanthemum]

They are punished. That's what the bans are FOR. If people persist, they are banned permanently, from all of the forums. If we allow people who are banned in EotW to make the same kind of threads in GC, they are effectively circumventing the punishment and posting about the topics they were banned from posting about. It's a punishment, and it's what happens when people do stuff like that on these forums. If they don't like it, it isn't THAT difficult to not be banned from EotW in the first place.

[Shlup]

You're proposing solutions that require way more time and effort than the staff should be required to invest.

Wow. Here I go thinking this is sarcasm, and Del completely agrees with it. How dare we ask the staff to put forth effort to moderate this forum!

Nope. Wasn't sarcasm. Moderating these forums is a lot of work, for very, very little payoff. And even when there is a payoff is marred by threads in this forum like "OMG hats r so annoying stop doing what you think is fun and wipe my bunnum."

I still think EoFF should have temp bans though. People being poops? Banned for the rest of the day!