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Thread: Dishonoring Fallen Heroes

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    Skyblade's Avatar
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    Default Dishonoring Fallen Heroes

    http://michellemalkin.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Flight 93 memorial
    FLIGHT 93 MEMORIAL: SEEING IS BELIEVING
    By Michelle Malkin · September 10, 2005 09:02 AM

    Credit: Zombie

    Tons of you are stunned, outraged, and sickened by the new Flight 93 Memorial, the "Crescent of Embrace." I called the architect responsible for the redesign, Paul Murdoch of Los Angeles, yesterday for comment. He did not return my call, but he did speak with the Johnstown, Pa., Tribune Democrat, as quoted in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette.

    Neither Murdoch nor his supporters see any problem with the red crescent wrapped around the crash site near Shanksville, Pa., where 40 innocent people were murdered at the hands of Islamic terrorists:

    "This is not about any religion per se," Murdoch said in a telephone interview with the Tribune-Democrat in Johnstown. "It's a spiritual space, and a sacred place, but it's open to anyone."
    The word "crescent," he said, was used as a generic architectural term for a curved line.

    "Sure, there is an Islamic crescent," Murdoch said. "Theirs is a lunar crescent. Ours isn't based on that."


    Per se.

    The Post Gazette attempts to marginalize and minimize critics:

    Almost immediately upon seeing the design, online bloggers suggested that it is inappropriate to use a red crescent in the memorial.
    To many, that shape represents Islam, and the symbol is used on the flags of several Muslim countries, including Turkey, Pakistan and Uzbekistan.

    The four men who hijacked United Airlines Flight 93 on its way from Newark, N.J., to San Francisco were Muslim.

    But the architects who created the winning design say their design has nothing to do with Islam.


    The article states that family members of the Flight 93 victims do not find the crescent objectionable. And how's this for fair and balanced: Five people who support the memorial are quoted, including one who calls the criticism bigoted, disgusting, and repellant. By comparison, only two opponents are quoted, including a "street evangelist" who is described as a "self-proclaimed bishop."

    So, the plan is dismiss those of us whose eyes are not blinded by political correctness as racist cranks with imaginations run wild. But we're not the only ones objecting. The Tribune-Democrat article quotes a professor of Middle East studies and a local Muslim leader who see the obvious--and reports that jury members who chose the winning design were cognizant of the offensive overtones.

    “Given the political ramifications, it’s not an apt name,” Professor Bernard Haykel said Friday, a day after a Somerset County street preacher declared he is considering filing for an injunction to stop the design.
    “I could see a Muslim taking offense to this by saying this could be a slight to Islam. It could cut both ways.”

    ...In Islam, the crescent moon symbolizes the beginning and end of a calendar month. Crescents are prominent on mosques and are used on ambulances similar to red crosses in America.

    “It is the symbol of ritual and religious life for Muslims,” Haykel said.

    “The name (of the memorial) itself is not bad, but people can read into it all kinds of things.”

    Murdoch has said the word is used generically in an architectural sense to describe the walkway around the bowl-shaped depression surrounding the plane’s point of impact. He maintains no religious implications were intended.

    But even the second-stage jury that selected the design recommended changing its name to steer clear of religious overtones. Rather than crescent, the jury suggested using circle or arc of embrace instead.

    Fouad El Bayly of Somerset, leader of the Islamic Center of Johnstown, has said Muslims immediately would recognize the symbolism in the design.

    The crescent is a symbol of Islamic faith, El Bayly said.

    “You pick something to be identified with,” he said.


    The gentlemen at Junkyard Blog and an astute commenter at Captain's Quarters cut through the architectural b.s., too. Rich at CQ writes:

    This was not mere ham-fistedness. There is no group more attuned to symbolism and the "meaning" of structures than architects. It is their business to take drawings and, ultimately, wood, glass, and stone, and create meaning out of it. That this design is in some way accidental or coincidental is preposterous.
    Bryan Preston at JYB cuts to the chase:

    Look, this was almost surely conceived innocently by an idealistic liberal as symbolic of "peaceful Islam" healing and bonding with those slaughtered for Allah, but this shifty artiste doesn't want to say that outright. He may think that's a noble cause, but he would also think think CAIR has a noble cause. By not admitting any honest intent here, it raises the possibility that the mockery is intentional. It does almost feel like a big practical joke.
    And a very sick one.

    ***

    Reader Simon Tan writes:

    Dear Michelle,
    The winning design for the Flight 93 memorial ‘Crescent of Embrace’ is extravagant, wasteful and ultimately does not convey the spirit of the resistance and defiance of the passengers who made the ultimate sacrifice that their plane would not be used to attack their own countrymen. Surely that is the enduring legacy of the men and women of Flight 93, that there will be no surrender in the face of terrorism.

    How would you stop this travesty of a memorial from blighting the Pennsylvania landscape? This is the intellectual masturbatory fantasy of an architect for the benefit of his peers.

    I propose a single block of unfinished granite, representing the enduring and unvarnished legacy of Flight 93 with the immortal line, “Let’s Roll” hewn into it in 5’ high letters. A panel below should be smoothed and polished and the names of the fallen engraved there along with a description of their actions that day. In front of this would be a simple paved plaza with one flagpole facing the monument in their honour. Let the memorial be simple and straightforward, uncluttered by the baggage of others and with a clear and unambiguous message for all who would stand before it.


    Ace and Allahpundit cheekily propose their own redesign.

    ***

    Write the National Park Service, which must approve the final design here.

    Call the Superintendent of the Flight 93 National Memorial at (814) 443-4557. Or fax (814) 443-2180.
    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog
    Flight 93 Memorialized with Red Crescent

    It now looks as if both of the planned memorials for 9/11 (the International Freedom Center in Manhattan and the “Crescent of Embrace” in Pennsylvania) will be monumental insults: Design for Flight 93 memorial chosen.

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The heroic struggle by airline passengers who thwarted a terror attack on the nation’s capital on Sept. 11, 2001, will be commemorated in a 2,000-acre memorial site that includes a chapel with metallic wind chimes.

    The “Crescent of Embrace” memorial, created by a team of designers led by Paul Murdoch Architects of Los Angeles, was chosen Wednesday by the Flight 93 Advisory Commission. The aim of the one-year competition was to honor the 40 passengers and crew who died after their plane was hijacked and crashed in a field in rural Pennsylvania.

    And to honor the passengers and crew, these architects have chosen to create a memorial based on the religious symbol of the hijackers.

    UPDATE at 9/11/05 3:45:40 pm:

    For those who are trying to argue that this design is a pure coincidence, please note the following from the Pennsylvania Post-Gazette, revealing that the jury members knew in advance that this issue might come up, and recommended changing the name to avoid controversy: Flight 93 memorial decried as Islam symbol.

    The jurors recognized there could be some backlash because of the crescent. That’s why, in their recommendations, they wrote: “Consider the interpretation and impact of words within the context of this event. The crescent should be referred to as ‘the circle or arc,’ or other words that are not tied to specific religious iconography.”

    Do any others here think that the memorial should be in honor of the heroes who fell taking down the terrorist act, and not in honor of the terrorists?
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    Those...eyebrows... Recognized Member XxSephirothxX's Avatar
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    I don't know if I really believe the monument is designed with a reference to Islam. Even if it is, I don't see that as honoring the terrorists. Politics always fall into petty arguments such as this, and it's virtually impossible to design anything nowadays that doesn't piss off one group or another. Maybe they should have picked something else, but the design they chose doesn't offend me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azar With A Hat
    I don't know if I really believe the monument is designed with a reference to Islam. Even if it is, I don't see that as honoring the terrorists. Politics always fall into petty arguments such as this, and it's virtually impossible to design anything nowadays that doesn't piss off one group or another. Maybe they should have picked something else, but the design they chose doesn't offend me.
    Perhaps you missed this: http://www.zombietime.com/flight_93_...ct/mz936ie.jpg

    It's a Red Crescent pointing towards Mecca. How is that not designed to be a reference to Islam? *snip*

    Also, the architect said that "crescent" was a term used to describe a curved line in architecture. It's not, "arc" is the common term.
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    Those...eyebrows... Recognized Member XxSephirothxX's Avatar
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    First, you should really lose that attitude. It's not going to do anything but get you EoEo banned. Crescent and arc are synonyms, so while arc may be the more common word, I don't see that as a neccessary sign that it is a reference to Islam. And maybe it is designed to reference Islam. It could be simply a coincidence it's pointing towards Mecca, but that's unlikely. So what? Why does Islam have to be viewed in a negative light? Why can't we simply perceive this as an attempt to bring peace between the oft-criticized Muslims and those that sacrificed themselves for the good of the country? Islam does not equal terrorism, despite many people's beliefs that have developed over the past several years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade
    Quote Originally Posted by Azar With A Hat
    I don't know if I really believe the monument is designed with a reference to Islam. Even if it is, I don't see that as honoring the terrorists. Politics always fall into petty arguments such as this, and it's virtually impossible to design anything nowadays that doesn't piss off one group or another. Maybe they should have picked something else, but the design they chose doesn't offend me.
    Perhaps you missed this: http://www.zombietime.com/flight_93_...ct/mz936ie.jpg

    It's a Red Crescent pointing towards Mecca. How is that not designed to be a reference to Islam? Are you that naive, or are you just stupid?

    Also, the architect said that "crescent" was a term used to describe a curved line in architecture. It's not, "arc" is the common term.
    Name calling really proves your point. :rolleyes2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azar With A Hat
    First, you should really lose that attitude. It's not going to do anything but get you EoEo banned. Crescent and arc are synonyms, so while arc may be the more common word, I don't see that as a neccessary sign that it is a reference to Islam. And maybe it is designed to reference Islam. It could be simply a coincidence it's pointing towards Mecca, but that's unlikely. So what? Why does Islam have to be viewed in a negative light? Why can't we simply perceive this as an attempt to bring peace between the oft-criticized Muslims and those that sacrificed themselves for the good of the country? Islam does not equal terrorism, despite many people's beliefs that have developed over the past several years.
    Fact: On September 11, 2001, four Islamic extremist terrorists hijacked American Airlines flight 93. Passengers on that flight overpowered that flight, and crashed it into the ground, resulting in the only hijacked flight on that day which did not cause a single casulty on the ground.

    You think that a proper memorial to those heroes is to place an Islamic symbol around the crash site? This does more to honor the terrorists who were attempting to slaughter innocents than it does to honor the heroes who took them down.

    *snip*

    [leeza]Two week ban. There are other ways to get a point across than being impolite and disrespectful. ~ Leeza[/leeza]
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    Those...eyebrows... Recognized Member XxSephirothxX's Avatar
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    You get banned from both, and it's generally referred to as an EoEo ban, from what I've seen, so that's why I called it that. I never said I thought it was proper. I don't find it offensive, and if it is indeed supposed to, in some way, honor Islam, that doesn't mean it is neccessarily honoring terrorism. How many people who murder, steal, or otherwise hurt their fellow human beings are Christians? A lot. This doesn't mean the bible says "Go steal that TV" or something stupid of that nature. But the Quran doesn't say "Go kill some Americans." I'm just trying to say that something that *might* be honoring Islam doesn't have to be honoring terrorism. You can look at it from any angle you want to, and people most commonly choose a negative one. But it doesn't have to be that way.

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    Got obliterated Recognized Member Shoeberto's Avatar
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    Closed by request from Skyblade.

    edit: GRAND RE-OPENING BY POPULAR DEMAND.


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    A Big Deal? Recognized Member Big D's Avatar
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    Something I want to add:
    Thousands of innocents were murdered by "Christian terrorists" in the IRA, yet I'll be there are plenty of cross-shaped memorials to their victims. It's not about "honouring the killers" in those instances; I see no reason this should be any different.

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    Tribune-Democrat article quotes a professor of Middle East studies and a local Muslim leader who see the obvious--and reports that jury members who chose the winning design were cognizant of the offensive overtones.
    Well weather this was intentional or not, this man claims that the symbolism was known to those whom designed it. I etirely agree, anyone whom looks at a plan should be open minded of the symbolic nature of the peice. I will digress below.

    I see where several views come from when they do not see what the big deal of a cresent is, or why people are looking into it too much; Well for one thing, I do see a big deal when an architect whom is working on a monument that will commemorate the actions of those brave souls should obviously hold a at least small fraction of symbolism. This man's design is only really backed up by function. Unless I missed somthing, I did not see one ounce of symbolism packed into the design. If there is intentionally no symbolism, how did it win!? On my second point, for looking into it too much, I belive that the symbolism should be stidied closley. This was a big event, and the memorial for the heroism should be to par with thier act. Symbolism has always been a key part of art and litterature. One that is simple and abstract enough to let people get the designed astetic appeal. If this man was a profesional, and took much pride in his work, I think they symbolism would be better laid out than what is represented.

    I see this as a sick joke.

    I do have a different view on religon in this country than most do. I belive that the country was founded and based off many key principles of christianity. I think that the government should Have freedom of Religon, not be free of religon. Being that the founded coutry was that of christianity, I think that the sole religous views taken by the government should be fine. If they put up a cross, with 'GOD bless' printed on it, I belive that to be perfectly fine, as the victums were from all walks of life I am sure. The way for the government to show a religous congradulatory phrase should be 'Christan' in nature. It's like if someome came up to me and said "Alah bless you" I would get the effect as to what the were saying. On that note however, If everyone on the plane was a follower of the muslem faith, then the cresent would be called for in my opinion.

    Easily the symbolic representation and memorial for what happend to these hero's should not be a symbol that was carried by those whom were the enemy of this situation. That would be like thanking Hitler for making American (and soilders from around the world) Soilders Heros.

    thanks for reopening this HSU (I love you)
    Bipper

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    I'm not offended. It sounds like what the guy was trying to do was put the arc/cresent/whatever around the footprint left by the plane. However, I don't see how the stupid thing won because it's ugly and gives no context to what happened there. 100 years later, kids will come to this monument and see an arc and a hole in the ground and not have any idea what happened there.

    And the arc points at Mecca? So the plane crashed facing Mecca too, didn't it? The symbolism of the coinidence is a little bit ... odd don't you think?

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    2nd Protector of the Sun War Angel's Avatar
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    Dunno 'bout you all, but if I had to design a memorial for those who died, I'd try my best not to make it provocative, and made it so it would actually honour those who lost their lives there. I can't really understand an artist that tries to draw his lust for provocation from doing such a thing... it's quite sick. It reminds me of some Holocaust memorials that contained, how to put this lightly, 'black humour'... and people didn't take kindly to it. I don't think people should take kindly to this, either.
    When fighting monsters, be wary not to become one yourself... when gazing into the abyss, bear in mind that the abyss also gazes into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    The rightful owner of this Ciddie can kiss my arse! :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big D
    Something I want to add:
    Thousands of innocents were murdered by "Christian terrorists" in the IRA, yet I'll be there are plenty of cross-shaped memorials to their victims. It's not about "honouring the killers" in those instances; I see no reason this should be any different.
    Certainly. Such as, at the graves of the Christian victims. Go check how many of the passengers of Flight 93 were Muslim.
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    absolutely haram Recognized Member Madame Adequate's Avatar
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    Whilst intention is important - and the artist's intention can't be proven - the fact is this strongly resembles the symbol of the religion to which the perpetrators of 9/11 adhered (In whatever twisted form.). So the considerations of the implications are important as well. I doubt there is a malicious intent here (Misguided, probably.), but I do think whatever he case it would be extremely wise to choose something else.

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    I agree with a lot there Milfer. I do belive that it must have been thought of, as it was a long time in the sorks submission, supposedly. When you think of it though, the idea was submitted and seen by other people. How many? I am not exactly certain. It is very clear that the idea should not have gone through the approval of a board, that is, unless these people have really no means of interpeting this obvious symbol, let alone any symbolic referances.

    Bipper

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